tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post1905530293529455783..comments2023-12-29T04:06:05.923-05:00Comments on The Blood Angels: by Jawaballs: Blood Angels with Allies list buildingJawaballshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-92061926535464725022012-09-27T12:56:11.372-04:002012-09-27T12:56:11.372-04:00A month too late but...
People often forget that ...A month too late but...<br /><br />People often forget that Skimmers can also be hit with Skyfire units. Between Flyers, FMCs, and Dark Eldar/Eldar, you have a safe bet of always having a target. Not to mention that they're still dropping Vendettas when they enter Hover mode. <br /><br />Glad they answered the Axe question.JRBunnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06850315083987388362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-54636147059090093652012-09-03T01:06:34.883-04:002012-09-03T01:06:34.883-04:00Dante's Axe needs to be FAQ'd for clarific...Dante's Axe needs to be FAQ'd for clarification. However, I have been playing it as a master crafted power axe. It has special rules attached, but these special rules are USRs, not UNIQUE special rules. so then it is not an unusual power weapon. The codex says it is a PW, and so you look to see what the model has. It is clearly an Axe and thus is a master crafted power axe.<br /><br />Tycho's dead man's hand ignores armor saves. i don't see the confusion. The codex doesn't even call it a power weapon so it does not even fall under any of the rules for power weapons, or unusual power weapons. In fact, it doesn't even act as a normal weapon as it simply states "Tycho's close combat attacks ignore armor saves". it doesn't say "Attacks with the dead man's hand ignore armor saves". It is actually just changing the way Tycho would normally even attack. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04246270097455523766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-75023203472579435342012-09-01T19:44:51.588-04:002012-09-01T19:44:51.588-04:00Dante's model was made a long time ago. he was...Dante's model was made a long time ago. he was made with an axe because it looked sweet. i am guessing had it been known in 2012 we would be swinging really slow with axes(/shrug), the model would have been armed with a sword(The Sword Mortalis). But, unfortunately, it wasn't. <br /> --WYSIWYG-- <br />The Axe Mortalis: The Axe Mortalis is a master-crafted power weapon. (pg 53, codex Blood Angels)<br /><br />It doesn't say it is a power axe, says power weapon, so make your own custom model with a sword. bam, problem solved. <br /><br />But really, just let the player with Dante decide pre game how he will use the weapon and just make sure he is consistent and have fun. don't be a douche and ruin the fun because it will give you a slight edge. or have a shitty day and GFOartstthmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03315834302655696626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-64179931347860924622012-08-31T19:53:25.702-04:002012-08-31T19:53:25.702-04:00That really sucks, Jawa. I've heard complaints...That really sucks, Jawa. I've heard complaints regarding FW and bad casts, which is really hard to accept because of their inflated cost. I hope Customer Service made it right for you.<br /><br />Gonewild40khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03288386569896024651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-14483039615360073542012-08-31T18:09:58.530-04:002012-08-31T18:09:58.530-04:00That Tycho conversion is sweet. This army idea of...That Tycho conversion is sweet. This army idea of yours is very inspiring. I've got a whack of store credit saved up, and though I have no time to build it all (and certainly no time to paint it!) I'm really tempted by a Guard + Marine combo.Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02508176837870005041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-59332127336690325082012-08-31T17:10:40.507-04:002012-08-31T17:10:40.507-04:00An axe by any other name...
Tolkien called a swo...An axe by any other name... <br /><br />Tolkien called a sword Foe Hammer. <br /><br />Steven king called an Arrow the same thing. <br /><br />If a sword and an arrow can be called a hammer, cannot a sword be called an Axe? Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-21548427507128174052012-08-31T16:38:07.375-04:002012-08-31T16:38:07.375-04:00I honestly feel that Dante's weapon isn't ...I honestly feel that Dante's weapon isn't actually covered in the rule book. I understand the argument for it being "unique." But it really isn't, it is a weapon with a USR that has a name, does that make it unique? Not really.<br /><br />Basically the rulebook doesn't state a Uniquely named Wargear with a USR...what is it? That seems to be a the issue, the rulebook references "unusual" power weapons with "unique" rules, but what about "unique" power weapons with special rules?<br /><br />^I think that is the bottom dollar argument really. I for the purpose of my sanity have been playing it as a master-crafted power sword, which is foolish considering it is called "AXE of Mortalis."MadMaverickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13472796515789522198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-41687546115249863202012-08-31T16:37:56.107-04:002012-08-31T16:37:56.107-04:00Gonewild, I have to disagree about DkoK. I had a ...Gonewild, I have to disagree about DkoK. I had a few squads but they were so poorly formed, I had to replace half the arms and weapons with Cadian ones... They looked cool, but I was unhappy with the casts. Perhaps I can try again.Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-2872852617124456672012-08-31T12:21:09.114-04:002012-08-31T12:21:09.114-04:00I love where you're going with allies, Jawa- t...I love where you're going with allies, Jawa- the same direction I'm headed ;). In my allied IG list, I have included a barebones command squad, Marbo (65 points and he can come in anywhere on the board within an inch of an enemy. He gets a demo-charge attack- wow), a plasma vet squad, 1-2 Vendetta(s) w/HB sponsons (playing against them is frightening), and a Manticore. Definitely check out the Manticore- it is the perfect artillery piece to cover your units as they push forward. <br /><br />With regard to Tycho: His weapon was not defined as a power weapon in the FAQ, therefore, it is not held to any of the power weapon rules found in the rulebook. It is a cc weapon that ignores armor saves; a model can still take any invuln save available to it.<br />Your original assessment of Tycho is correct; he is a beast (and one of few HQs that can ignore armor saves)- An AP value is not associated with his cc attacks because it ignores armor saves completely.<br /><br />Next is Dante's Axe; the Axe Mortalis. On page 23 of the Blood Angels codex unique weapon and equipment are clearly defined. For a much more detailed explanation, you're welcome to visit my <a href="http://gonewild40k.blogspot.com/2012/07/6th-edition-power-weapon-designation.html#comment-635377680" rel="nofollow">blog post about it</a><br /><br />Suffice to say that I believe the intent is that the Axe Mortalis and Glaive Encarmine(s) are unusual power weapons and AP3. <br /><br />In conclusion, I love the direction you're going with your list. I love the fluff elements (incorporating Legion of Steel with your Blood Angels), I would suggest taking a look at the Death Korps from Forge World. When compared directly with the metal LoS models, the comparison is night and day. Trust me: You will have never painted anything as beautiful as those Forge World DKOK- I can't stress that enough.<br />Gonewild40khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03288386569896024651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-59307919647945675562012-08-31T11:54:39.677-04:002012-08-31T11:54:39.677-04:00Greetings Jawa,
I'm a long time watcher of you...Greetings Jawa,<br />I'm a long time watcher of your blog, but I've never commented....until now! Mainly because I feel I can give some good advice. I have played blood angels ever since the PDF codex was released and played IG since 3rd ed. I love both armies and think they work exceptionally well together in 6th ed. <br />I agree that tac squads are really brilliant in 6th ed( heavy bolter and plasma works well), I especially like them in Rhinos due to their great speed. Excellent delivery system for first turn objective grabbing and last minute objective grabbing. <br />For your guard allies I would recommend this, Leman Russ tanks!! Play test them...you'll love them. I run a full squad with my Blood angels as such: Exterminator with hull heavy bolter and sponsons and two stock Battle tanks with hull heavy bolter and hull lascannon. Very flexible squadron, can take on most enemies....well all really great for hordes and power armour.<br />Also, your choice of vets is great autocannon's work really well as does plasma. In the interest of points and practicality, two autocannon's in a squad that's meant to charge forward in a chimera hop out, rapid fire then likely die...it may be a waste. I would say toss a fist or plasma pistol on the veteran sergeants instead. Michael Buelnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07202689908901021931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-73300699044054901252012-08-31T07:42:35.552-04:002012-08-31T07:42:35.552-04:00Ming, I get what you are saying, but aren't th...Ming, I get what you are saying, but aren't there other weapons that appear to be one thing but are resolved differently? Some sort of scythe? <br /><br />I am not arguing for Dante to be AP3 PW because I have no stakes in this, I have not used Dante since 4th Ed. But it really doesn't make sense for him to be a model pointed out with such a high initiative, only to be given a weapon that takes it away. <br /><br />Axe Mortalis aside, the weapon falls under neither of the categories for determining it's characteristics in the rule book. I don't care one way or another, aside from the fact that it makes interesting discussion.<br /><br />What is funny is the guys on Dakka who argue their side like a fanatic. <br /><br />Pascalnz, I don't know any thing about Kharne, and I don't have my BA book today. Is a Blood Crozius a named weapon like The Axe Mortalis? Or is it a generic named wargear like a Blood Chalice. I think that with situations like this, it supports the argument for Dante's weapon being AP3. The others got an FAQ, and Dante's did not. That might suggest that the developers felt that Dante's is sufficiently defined by the rules. (Unique weapon, further special rules, must be AP3) Other wise they would have given an FAQ like they did with Kharn. (Unique weapon, further special rules, AP2 but slow) Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-38589426354232586452012-08-31T01:02:03.770-04:002012-08-31T01:02:03.770-04:00Do you feel that tycos rites of battle rule states...Do you feel that tycos rites of battle rule states "use his leadership"? I regularly play a tau player and he destroyed my army ( seeing how he ran lots of markerlights). Prydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16366990513944946091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-55242354218179690762012-08-31T01:01:41.007-04:002012-08-31T01:01:41.007-04:00Do you feel that tycos rites of battle rule states...Do you feel that tycos rites of battle rule states "use his leadership"? I regularly play a tau player and he destroyed my army ( seeing how he ran lots of markerlights). Prydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16366990513944946091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-6096898046991629022012-08-30T21:07:29.629-04:002012-08-30T21:07:29.629-04:00Ingvar, after playing a game tonight, and I admit ...Ingvar, after playing a game tonight, and I admit I am still learning, I realized just how fast BA tanks are. There certainly is some merit that BA rhinos are the exception to my statement that tanks are dead. You really do only need to move them once and they have done their job. So as a delivery system, they indeed are good. IF they dont get picked off before they get to move. <br /><br />When I say they are dead, it is because now guys are shooting every mid str weapon in the game at them and before they were not. The multi laser for example. Hull points turn that gun into a VERY effective rhino killer. But also, the Heavy Bolter can do the job too. An autocann predator with HB sponsons can now easily knock out a rhino when before it was lucky to slow it down. Hull Points allow many more weapons to become reliable rhino killers, SO, I contend that rhinos are dead. Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-48172175179493616442012-08-30T19:27:43.694-04:002012-08-30T19:27:43.694-04:00Heck Jawa...it has ax in the name...so power ax pl...Heck Jawa...it has ax in the name...so power ax plus plus...Minghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01497228965588834972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-9570487231795580482012-08-30T17:07:38.409-04:002012-08-30T17:07:38.409-04:00Interesting, there are some things I would like to...Interesting, there are some things I would like to mention though:<br /><br />Hydras only hit ground units on 6s, which makes them really bad when the opponent doesn't have fliers, and not to mention that the fliers will be able to shoot the hydras before they fire back. I would rather have gotten a Vendetta which is just as good vs air and ground units. <br /><br />Next up is rhinos. You say vehicles are dead in 6th, which I can't say I agree on, but I aren't interested in a long debate about it. Short version is though, you only need 1 round of movement from them (up to 24'' with fast), and they protect your troops. I wouldn't get them for assault marines, but deffinitely for the tacticals (which are a great unit, I agree on that). <br />Also, if we look at the fluff, wasn't it on Armageddon the blood angels modified their motor pool to go faster (at least the land raiders if I remember correctly) so a couple vehicles would be fluffy as they were up against speed freeks?<br /><br />I ain't exactly excited about Tycho, with ATSKNF you don't need LD10, he costs alot and aren't exactly a monster in melee. He may ignore armour saves but with 4 attacks on the charge, he may down 1 shield termi. <br />I don't really see how people can argue him to be AP3 when he isn't equipped with a power weapon, it merely says on his bolter that his attacks ignore armour saves.<br /><br /><br />Dunno if anything of this is of any help, good luck with the list building regardless ;)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08744491232162752776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-69574847884027350462012-08-30T16:31:11.136-04:002012-08-30T16:31:11.136-04:00a thing on dante's axe. the blood crozious is ...a thing on dante's axe. the blood crozious is defined exactly the same"a mastercrafted power weapon" and it got faq'd to be wysiwyg, i.e. a power maul. <br />the only reason it would need to be faq'd is if being mastercrafted does in fact make you have a unique weapon.<br /><br />also around page 23 of the BA codex is a section stating that any piece of wargear listed on the unit description page is unique wargear.<br />so axe mortalis, executioners axe , glaive encarmine, blood crozious etc.<br /><br />And finally, if Kharns axe and the blood crozius both get faq'd to be wysiwyg, the must both be unique power weapons.<br /><br />Love your stuff Jawa :)<br /><br />PascalnzPascalnzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13950812748188819069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-9580516585456855422012-08-30T15:49:03.310-04:002012-08-30T15:49:03.310-04:00I like where you're going with your allied arm...I like where you're going with your allied army, but I have to agree that the Hydra isn't always worth it in a tourney setting. If you're playing against friends that you know will have flyers then they're great, but the lack of Interceptor can hinder them. On the other hand they do fire a ton of shots so it may still be worth taking a look at.<br /><br />For your Vet squads I know BoxerSaint suggested dropping the Auto Cannons, but if used correctly they could really help out. Remember that heavy weapons can remain stationary while the rest of your squad moves up as long as they remain in unit coherency. So move your unit up leaving the Auto Cannons behind in the turn you want to shoot that unit and just leave a Lasgun equipped Vet or two a little behind to keep coherency. Also if you absolutly must move them they can still Snap Shot, and they have enough shots that in a pinch might still be worth it.<br /><br />As for Tycho's rule, it ignores armour saves period. It has nothing to do with power weapon rules so the "unusual power weapon" ruling has no relevence.<br /><br />I also LOVE the BA Bikes now!! They get FnP against everything except str 10 weapons if you have a bike or JP equipped Sanguinary Priest with them (I prefer the bike for the extra toughness making the Priest tougher as well).<br /><br />And finally, the Aegis Defence Lines. I use them all the time. Their rule says each section needs to be in contact with one other section, so you can split them into as many as four sections. They have the ability to buy a Quadgun, Icarus Lascannon or a Comms Relay (personally I like the Quadgun, more so if it's being crewed by someone with a decent BS). Also it doesn't say anywhere that the guns/relay need to be in contact with any of the Aegis sections so you could place them anywhere in your deployment zone. And the +2 to your cover save when you go to ground is awesome with guard, as long as you have a Commander that can order them back to their feet the following turn.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15802575038662692251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-81865262953566524612012-08-30T15:48:38.723-04:002012-08-30T15:48:38.723-04:00I like where you're going with your allied arm...I like where you're going with your allied army, but I have to agree that the Hydra isn't always worth it in a tourney setting. If you're playing against friends that you know will have flyers then they're great, but the lack of Interceptor can hinder them. On the other hand they do fire a ton of shots so it may still be worth taking a look at.<br /><br />For your Vet squads I know BoxerSaint suggested dropping the Auto Cannons, but if used correctly they could really help out. Remember that heavy weapons can remain stationary while the rest of your squad moves up as long as they remain in unit coherency. So move your unit up leaving the Auto Cannons behind in the turn you want to shoot that unit and just leave a Lasgun equipped Vet or two a little behind to keep coherency. Also if you absolutly must move them they can still Snap Shot, and they have enough shots that in a pinch might still be worth it.<br /><br />As for Tycho's rule, it ignores armour saves period. It has nothing to do with power weapon rules so the "unusual power weapon" ruling has no relevence.<br /><br />I also LOVE the BA Bikes now!! They get FnP against everything except str 10 weapons if you have a bike or JP equipped Sanguinary Priest with them (I prefer the bike for the extra toughness making the Priest tougher as well).<br /><br />And finally, the Aegis Defence Lines. I use them all the time. Their rule says each section needs to be in contact with one other section, so you can split them into as many as four sections. They have the ability to buy a Quadgun, Icarus Lascannon or a Comms Relay (personally I like the Quadgun, more so if it's being crewed by someone with a decent BS). Also it doesn't say anywhere that the guns/relay need to be in contact with any of the Aegis sections so you could place them anywhere in your deployment zone. And the +2 to your cover save when you go to ground is awesome with guard, as long as you have a Commander that can order them back to their feet the following turn.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15802575038662692251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-58319397140614324832012-08-30T14:35:21.406-04:002012-08-30T14:35:21.406-04:00Yeah Jawa Tycho's weapon does not ignore all a...Yeah Jawa Tycho's weapon does not ignore all armor saves it is considered a unique power weapon, (a power weapon with a unique rule not usr's) and if you read page 61 any weapon like tycho's is treated as AP3 with any unique rule it has so no it does not ignore saves.<br /><br />With Dante its fairly simple, if your weapon has a unique rule I.E a non-USR then it is an unusual power weapon making it AP3. Master crafted is a USR so it is in fact a normal power axe since it has no unique rule...people are just plain silly in that case imho the book is quite clear since power weapons have now been defined specifically. If it stated he had a power sword he would have a sword. hmmm somehow this is turning into an article for me.<br /><br />Anyway the list is cool, even though squads can only throw one krak grenade and it cannot be at normal units (only vehicles and MC's) they are ok but can be good.<br /><br />For IG hydras are meh, suck against ground targets now. I would suggest vendettas since they are super broken for the time being (until the next few codixes make skyfire more available) and either medusa's (s10 ap2 large blast) or manticores. glhf :)Kevinmcd28https://www.blogger.com/profile/06915604908609700895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-17496651801050888682012-08-30T12:01:13.536-04:002012-08-30T12:01:13.536-04:00I just shared my two cents on Dakka. As much as I ...I just shared my two cents on Dakka. As much as I hate posting on forums... Neither camp is right. Dante's weapon does not fit into either of the categories outlined on page 61. Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-90571812933933626972012-08-30T11:31:19.375-04:002012-08-30T11:31:19.375-04:00Lots of hate and discontent on Dakka about that ax...Lots of hate and discontent on Dakka about that axe: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/471157.page<br /><br />I agree with you...it's a power weapon, so it's AP3. :(Stupid Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00635724267013590918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-51944979491091773842012-08-30T11:10:42.065-04:002012-08-30T11:10:42.065-04:00Looking at page 61 I think that Tycho's weapon...Looking at page 61 I think that Tycho's weapon simply "ignores armor saves" so it does not have an AP value, but a Terminator would still get no armor save. The rule to determine the AP of unusual weapons covers power weapons only. Tycho's is not a PW. So it goes at normal initiative, ignores armor, and has no AP. <br /><br />This brings me to Dante's weapon. It also stands outside the rules on 61. It is a power weapon with a secondary special rule. The rule says that if the weapon says it is a power weapon with NO further special rules, than look at the model to decide which type of weapon it is. But since The Ax Mortalis does have a further special rule, it has to be considered an unusual power weapon, and as such be AP3. Thoughts?Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-41231688647791744942012-08-30T10:49:27.079-04:002012-08-30T10:49:27.079-04:00Pchappel, I guess you are right, I need to check t...Pchappel, I guess you are right, I need to check the FAQ and see where the weapon lies. It is probably an AP3 now... Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-43998255465392862562012-08-30T10:47:37.228-04:002012-08-30T10:47:37.228-04:00I will have to look at Vendettas. So many toys! I...I will have to look at Vendettas. So many toys! I wasn't really liking the idea of buying Forgeworld guns any way. The plasma cannon though is pretty good. It is a super cheap buy, and while cannot snap fire, will definitely provide lots of mid range punch for most of the game. They are really effective, especially vs MSU, and hard to hide from. Snap fire is just a little bonus any way. It is not meant to be a tactical element that you plan your army around. <br /><br />Thats good to know about the Hydra, I did not. :) Thanks!Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.com