tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post1974818279822069268..comments2023-12-29T04:06:05.923-05:00Comments on The Blood Angels: by Jawaballs: A Vindicator Retort?Jawaballshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-40810967561953593682012-01-22T07:32:27.849-05:002012-01-22T07:32:27.849-05:00Also, we blood angels players don't just play ...Also, we blood angels players don't just play regular marines because we enjoy the look of shock as we fly across the table 12" claiming an objective and then in the same turn fire on our oponants heaviest tank and destroy it :) that's why we play blood angels, for the dynamic abilities and tactical advantages which not only apply to troops but tanks also :)Ajudicatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10331167976456062772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-88859498699418222482012-01-22T07:27:28.988-05:002012-01-22T07:27:28.988-05:00Yes there is a difference, you see if you can move...Yes there is a difference, you see if you can move the vindicator 12" then your threat range turns from 30" to 36" and so you are more able to control your opponents moves and force his hand, especially if you keep it in reserve and are coming on 12" then firing 24" this potentially makes a 36" fear space between your board side and the oponant.Ajudicatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10331167976456062772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-43253381674077021252012-01-19T03:04:36.910-05:002012-01-19T03:04:36.910-05:00Why play BA if one just fields razorbacks, land sp...Why play BA if one just fields razorbacks, land speeders and vindicators?? Why not just play vanilla space marines for cheaper tanks and use Chronus as tank commander??<br /><br />Is there a significant difference between having the vindicator move 12 or 6 inches and still be able to fire?WilliamThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05560060173543560763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-54572435470622221322012-01-12T17:38:06.842-05:002012-01-12T17:38:06.842-05:00Anyone seen the leaked PDF of 6th? I'm liking...Anyone seen the leaked PDF of 6th? I'm liking it a lot. Looks like the Vindi is going to get a new lease of life too from my first impressions. No more will the number of weapons on a vehicle define how long they last in a battle.FluffyPandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16636917064385494641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-83736740701341587052012-01-12T16:09:53.531-05:002012-01-12T16:09:53.531-05:00So jawaballs, do you not recommend it then? The qu...So jawaballs, do you not recommend it then? The question is, would you and/or would you not play the vindicator and why? And in what situation. I've never played vindicator but was thinking about it until I realised one weapon destroyed renders it useless but then again maybe fritz tactical video helps, he says we must use it as a defensive tank, and from studying your battle reports that is how you play it to, would this be a better way to bring the fear factor of the vindicator back?Ajudicatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10331167976456062772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-69544036249990156092012-01-05T15:19:40.871-05:002012-01-05T15:19:40.871-05:00I've been using two and they have been running...I've been using two and they have been running fine for me. I have enough other lascannon fire that las predators are not needed. Dev squads are not mobile enough for the rest of my list.<br /><br />Two vindicators and a Baal predator to spear head my attack and create an AV13 wall for my razorbacks.TheGraveMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202256201375802641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-9704757537716020342012-01-05T06:11:27.311-05:002012-01-05T06:11:27.311-05:00My contention here is not that the Vindi is a terr...My contention here is not that the Vindi is a terrible tank, it is that rules changes have made it a shadow of it's former self. The ease with which models get cover saves in 5th Ed. take the teeth out of it's gun, and the loss of the third Vehicle Damage table makes it not scary at all. <br /><br />If it could explode transports and wipe out the troops inside, it would be a horror. Now it is just a nuisance. <br /><br />It has to get too close to be of use. This exposes it to melta fire. Plus with only one gun, it is a single lucky side shot from a heavy bolter from combat ineffective.Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-23834012302965187242012-01-05T04:12:49.769-05:002012-01-05T04:12:49.769-05:00Here's a really wild idea....
Why not field a...Here's a really wild idea....<br /><br />Why not field a mix of Vindis and Preds? Or one of each and another heavy support choice? Or something different altogether?<br /><br />Why does it need to be one or the other that's a better choice? Those stats (and similar stats for other units) clearly show that different units are better at different things. Taking multiples of the same tool is great if you're sure you always need to be hitting nails, but hurts when you need to drive a screw.<br /><br />There'll be cases in 40k where some units just really struggle to make their points and don't make sense for competitive play, but there are lots of units in the BA codex that are very good at their job.<br /><br />Anyway, nice to see someone clearly defending the vindicator, rather than going off a gut feel about why it is/isn't awesome.FluffyPandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16636917064385494641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-17847233992477611522012-01-05T01:35:11.579-05:002012-01-05T01:35:11.579-05:00The problem is that this discussion ignores the ac...The problem is that this discussion ignores the actual problems of the Vindicator frame. A hit rate a bit over 50% is simply not good for a one-shot gun. It can provide an AV13 wall, sure, but Predators can do that cheaper and/or with multiple guns effective against more targets. Vindicators suffer from "one gun syndrome" and their weapon is on a fixed mount with a relatively short range- so not only will a Weapon Destroyed result cripple them, Immobilized often will as well.<br /><br />Against infantry, I would be extremely surprised if you negate cover 40% of the time- heck, I would be surprised if you could do it 20% of the time. And so long as they have cover, the Vindicator's gun is little more scary than such underperformers as the Whirlwind.<br /><br />Against tanks it's nearly as bad. A single, inaccurate shot (again, 50% hit rate is not good) that does not penetrate cover and has no bonus on the damage table is simply not impressive. Devastators, AutoLas Predators, Baal Predators, Land Speeders... so many platforms perform better (with a variety of associated bonuses) that there is little to recommend the Vindicator. It can get a penetrating hit reasonably often, but a hit is not a kill.<br /><br />And for all that, it's simply not that cheap or tough. AV13 is nice, but AV11 on the sides (with a close-in weapon) is pretty damning.<br /><br />The BA Vindicator is surely better than its SM/SW counterparts, but I don't think it makes the grade.AbusePuppyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07413248837734103198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-21313936586574849772012-01-04T15:08:41.991-05:002012-01-04T15:08:41.991-05:00Mr. Biscuits's list looks effective on the tab...Mr. Biscuits's list looks effective on the table top. I like it. However, when you compare it to a auto/las pred, surely someone will say, "Hey, 1 weapon destroy will render the vindicator to almost useless."<br /><br />Also, if you have melta guns on your troops, that's an effective weapon for anti-land raider, too.<br /><br />All in all, I'm sold on both lists. BA is a good codex that can bring out different styles and still be effective.alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00404149320152766676noreply@blogger.com