tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post9219527471309254964..comments2023-12-29T04:06:05.923-05:00Comments on The Blood Angels: by Jawaballs: The Nova Open part 2Jawaballshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-22501510162662913812011-09-21T07:00:41.927-04:002011-09-21T07:00:41.927-04:00Morgrim thanks for running it. And you are dead on...Morgrim thanks for running it. And you are dead on about the invitational. The trios was fun because we were playing for nothing... but fun! I was there to joke, play and drink, and try to win Best Team Presentation. Success on all fronts! :) You were a good TO. Looking forward to next year, you should come up to BFS!Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-74162799533448231362011-09-20T14:04:30.907-04:002011-09-20T14:04:30.907-04:00Chris, glad you had such a good time at NOVA and s...Chris, glad you had such a good time at NOVA and specifically the Trios (team) tourney - mainly because I ran it ;) Seriously, you and the other players really made Trios a fun time. This hobby is only as good as the people in it and I felt like you guys really got that. <br /><br />It was intended to be a lighthearted way to get the weekend started and I did not see anyone taking it too seriously. Granted we had nominal prize support but to your earlier point the Invitational seemed tenser precisely because there was more on the line.Morgrim Darkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09231119283709857424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-79775115245126722802011-09-19T16:13:03.480-04:002011-09-19T16:13:03.480-04:00I can agree that conversions are indeed part, a pa...I can agree that conversions are indeed part, a part that I lag behind at. But having said that, if conversions are an important part, hand painting should be an equally important part which is something I excel at.<br /><br /> I don't know if Joe has a sponsorship with Chapterhouse. I was throwing a sideways shot at him as a friend. :) Real men paint their scales and dragon heads by hand. And they don't paint them Salmon.<br /><br />I like how you put it, "how well does the player alter the miniatures' appearance so that it no longer resembles the stock, out of the box version." I think that getting away from the word 'conversion' and creating a new word... say 'customization' or 'uniqueness' may be in order. <br /><br />Create different approaches that meet the same goal. Dan O (Rat dark eldar), Cobra army and myself all did the same thing in very different ways. It is my opinion that the three of us were equally successful at creating models that took the viewer away from the "out of the box" modeling experience. That is partly why the three of us were finalists. But could that be properly reflected in the rubric? On most of my assault marines I had to cut the arms where they attach to the body a bit to give them just the right pose to create fluidity with the motion of the legs. I also based them in such a way that when combined with the pose and arms made the models much more dynamic than the Sanginary Guard box set which look stiff and akward. <br /><br />I believe I was successful at making Space Marines look graceful. <br /><br />The bottom line in this discussion is that you guys had a prepublished rubric that you kept to. I respect that. I really appreciate the willingness to open a public discussion on ways to improve it. Yet another example of the forward thinking that makes Nova stand out. Well done.Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-85811985525928910052011-09-19T15:25:23.654-04:002011-09-19T15:25:23.654-04:00Sorry for the typos. Had to edit/shorten the comm...Sorry for the typos. Had to edit/shorten the comment so that it would post. Blogger is fickle that way. Sometimes it works, sometimes not...G Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00180174897038108755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-29379247417676535992011-09-19T15:20:55.064-04:002011-09-19T15:20:55.064-04:00My comment about conversions was meantas a light-h...My comment about conversions was meantas a light-hearted throw away line. Nonetheless, much of what you said is quite valuable. I do know that I need to re-calibrate the converted mini and single mini scorecards.<br /><br />Conversions are a 5 point category on the best army scorecard, which is 0.009375 to the ren man appearance score. The army scorecard does not really compel mass conversions so much as it throws a few extra points to those who do it. In your case, your army score was a most excellent 95. (for the record, the mean score was 49.1; the median score was 50.) So conversions did not harm you at all on your army score. <br /><br />But the problem we face with conversion... well in the first place, can we agree in some part that converting is part of the hobby, at least for now? I will say that it is a shrinking part of the hobby, now that the miniatures are almost all multi-part plastics that can be mixed, matched and kit-bashed to the nth degree. (Ah well. Me, I'm more of scratch builder-- Paperhammer anyone?) The only alternative thing I can think of would be called personalization, for lack of a better term-- how well does the player alter the miniatures' appearance so that it no longer resembles the stock, out of the box version. But with all of these multi-part miniatures, this also is an increasingly difficult thing to quantify. We may in fact need to drop it entirely from the army scorecard. Something I will discuss with my fellow judges in the near future. The hobby evolves, and we need to keep up with its evolutionary pace.<br /><br />I believe that the converted miniature should not get the same weight as best single painted miniature when computing the Ren Man appearance score, as it currently does. (The formula is, [Army score + 0.3*Single Mini score+0.3*Converted Mini score]/160..) This is something that I will discuss with Mike. Normally, I don't mess with the tournament side of things. However, we Whiskey Crew guys have a strong sense that we need to reward this aspect of the hobby, this compulsion to individualize a miniature, to create a truly unique miniature with customized bits and pieces. But we do need to take into account how this aspect of the hobby has changed. Conversions are not what they used to be, as I have said, and certainly not what they were when I started tabletop gaming. (2nd ed. 40k, 4th ed. Fantasy) The Miniature Frankenstein category does stay, but how the score affects the Ren Man score should, IMNSHO, change. And how we evaluate the category will need to change too. And that is a very lengthy debate indeed. Feel free to offer your 2¢ at any time.<br /><br />Funny you should mention Chapterhouse, BTW. Doesn't Joe Johnson have an affiliation with them somehow? And please, no funky vampire heads. No sparkly vampires. No lovesick vampires. Vicious, lethal blood-drinkers only, preferably stinking of the grave. And for Heaven's sake, No. Werewolves. Ever. ;)<br /><br />At least a real painter won the Ren Man title instead of one of those 'competitor' types. Score one for the good guys :)<br /><br />Get a wind up music box. I'd say get a solar powered one, but given the lighting issues... <br /><br />One way or another we will have better lighting, at least for appearance judging, next year.<br />Do appreciate the thanks. Feel sympathy for my fellow appearance judges. After putting them through a 'calibration' course to get everyone on the same page for judging, they all went home and took a critical look at their own minis. A very bad idea...G Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00180174897038108755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-17553548703348627492011-09-18T20:14:58.190-04:002011-09-18T20:14:58.190-04:00Oh and mine played music when the bateries were no...Oh and mine played music when the bateries were not dead. :)Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-13919939186124062292011-09-18T20:14:24.414-04:002011-09-18T20:14:24.414-04:00G Red, thaks for the response. And yes, I should ...G Red, thaks for the response. And yes, I should have highlighted all of the feathers on the backs. :) But I disagree with you on the conversion part. While it is a part of the hobby, it is a small part, and only part of some guys hobbies. GW makes beautiful model kits for Blood Angels. I love painting them, but the rubric punishes people who use them. Plus, I believe my Mephiston, while a simple conversion, ascends the character to a whole new level. <br /><br />While I see value in converting armies, I don't think that 10% of your final score should be determined by them. But also, I managed to create a very unique looking army using multiple standard kits. Each of my assault marines was made up of three or four different kits. But more importantly, I delicately chose combinations of arms and body parts from those kits to create very unique and intricate poses. That took hours of me matching arms with legs and torsos. Easily as much time as others spent sculpting with Green Stuff. That should have counted for something! While they are not hand sculpted, I think my assault marines should count for more points as conversions than they do. They look nothing like the GW kits from which they are born. The poses on most of them look like they are caught in a dance of death, poised for battle, or reveling in victory. Not easy to do with some of those models. I am proud of the way I made stock GW kits look unique, dynamic, interesting and different. <br /><br />That to me takes just as much skill as sculpting some green stuff sunglasses onto a Catachan. I would even argue more?<br /><br />I think my conversions were very subtle but effective (my priests for example) and my army transcended the GW Blood Angels kits. I took them above and beyond their humble origins. Sadly, I feel I may have scored more points if I had simply used Chapterhouse Studios shoulder pads and funky vampire heads. At any rate, I personally feel that my conversion score should be higher, but I understand why it is not.<br /><br /> I am in no way challenging your judgement. You were spot on with my score as per the rubric, and you picked the right winner. But thats just it. I think that the conversion part of the rubric did nothing to reward cases like mine and over emphasized other parts. While I agree that it should be there, I think that points should be allowed for either direction. Or points should be created to make up for conversions. If GW makes fantastic models for an army, I should be able to use those and only those models, and not lose points.<br /><br />I am not arguing with the Nova rubric. I made my army knowing that I was going to lose points there. But I don't think it is right that I am almost compelled to have to create all new models instead using the stock kits I love just to have a shot at the title.<br /><br />You guys were devoted, and worked for nothing, and did a great and difficult job. And yes, for your job, the cavern was a huge negative. Thank you for being there!Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-41263404404070218342011-09-17T18:31:31.369-04:002011-09-17T18:31:31.369-04:00Since you wrote such a long review, I feel free to...Since you wrote such a long review, I feel free to write a long response ;) <br /><br />Have to agree about the Hurricane Irene's effect on the tournament vibe. Sunday morning, when I got off the Metro and rode the escalator up to street level, once I reached the top, I was the only person around. I saw no cars, no people, no signs of life, only some yellow police tape around a traffic light that had blown down. Very creepy feeling to be the only person out in broad daylight in the middle of a major metropolitan area. Seriously unsettling.<br /><br />Have to diagree about the low ceilings and dim lighting being not a problem. For us doing the appearance judging, the dim lighting was a huge problem. It is very frustrating to review the appearance of something which is difficult to see. We had flashlights, to be certain, but they are best for viewing individual miniatures, and not armies in toto. Plus it made any photography difficult--flash photography tends to wash out details. (which is why older tv personalities like really bright lights. Hides the wrinkles.) There is a comparison between the Hyatt Caverns (my term) and the Mines of Moria for example (Over at the back40k blog. I'm sure you saw some of that. Also some explanation for the appearance prize awarding in our comments there. Sandwyrm used decals/water slide transfers on his vehicles. A no-no in painting. Freehand it, stencil it, but please no decals. There will be a notice in next year's appearance packet warning people about this. Even though it seems evident enough to me. If you want to win a painting award, paint.) <br /><br />Johnson's army was 'dreamsicle' orange, not pink. (as you have it labelled.) Very pastel, very tropical. And a difficult color to paint. But he used gradation highlighting in place of blended highlighted. The blending is the harder technique to do well.(yes it is. Especially with acrylic paints. Oils, a different story. But nobody paints minis with oils.) He also used black-lining with the dreamsicle orange. He should have used a dark brown (some shade of burnt umber.) This is not a critique of his color scheme, mind you. Personally, I liked the "Miami Marines" look. Very Cool. Folks can look elsewhere for explanantions why a dark brown is sometimes better, technically, than black for lining. OTOH, his conversion was, in a word, flawless. And conversion will stay on the scorecard. Sorry, Jawa. It is part of the hobby, just like painting models, and assembling/organizing armies. One cannot be a Renaissance Man if one neglects any part of the hobby :) <br /><br />In your army's case, IIRC, some number of your assault marines had incomplete highlighting on their backs. Nit-picky? Well, we were really scrambling for ways to sort out the top armies you see, and grasped almost any trivial thing to help us decide. Things were very close at the top. Great display boards all around. Some even played music :)<br /><br />And remember we are under the one prize per player rule, as I reminded all of our finalists, and wrote in the appearance packet. So...make of that what you will in terms of how we awarded prizes. And next year figure out how to keep the paint on your Best Single Miniature :) Poor little dude. You really did nail the NMM look though. I saw too many Grey Knights that did not. (Correction-- I. Saw. Too. Many. Grey. Knights.) Brian Carlson, a finalist I notice who has posted a comment here, really nailed the how-to-paint-yellow-properly with his Imperial Suns. Good Job Brian. And great looking army.<br /><br />The awards ceremony, too long? Heck yeah. I had to leave before they were over. A total bummer for me, since after four very long hard days, I was unable to see the appearance award recipients receive the awards. So many things to improve for next year. But overall, a good, fun tournament. <br /><br />Next year, aim for top conversion too. Johnson needs the competition. Just no Grey Knights. Please.G Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00180174897038108755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-17826683844240375172011-09-17T12:44:11.019-04:002011-09-17T12:44:11.019-04:00Jawa, I loled before you even got to the happening...Jawa, I loled before you even got to the happenings of the game. It was the "oh noes, run away" reaction to the DE that you had. <br /><br />I actually was a bit upset reading the report itself that the guy continued after is was clear you had no chance and had offered to concede. Beating a man down just to say you can is not kewl. <br /><br />PS - Bring it. If BFS allows challenges I'll take ya first round.Tordeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05557311475115790453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-12626102562473892532011-09-17T07:15:19.327-04:002011-09-17T07:15:19.327-04:00Good novel mate. Do you plan on writing a trilogy?...Good novel mate. Do you plan on writing a trilogy? :)Archangelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17284733932582419530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-38834975808707238982011-09-17T06:12:47.728-04:002011-09-17T06:12:47.728-04:00No new armies. What this will be it for the fall. ...No new armies. What this will be it for the fall. I'm planning an Eldar Ulthwe army, and still intend to paint my GKs for next year.Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-14488162868894997862011-09-17T00:13:40.265-04:002011-09-17T00:13:40.265-04:00Damn that literally took me a half hour to read, g...Damn that literally took me a half hour to read, good write up. Any chance of a new army like GK or BA Version 203820.7 (lol in good humor) by Mechanicons time? -Kevinmcd28Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-48783068821256816432011-09-16T23:25:33.412-04:002011-09-16T23:25:33.412-04:00And every one else, I am glad I'm touching on ...And every one else, I am glad I'm touching on something that matters to you. Too often some of the nastier posters are allowed to speak for every one, and every one forgets that for every "competitive" player at the Nova, there were 4 guys just there to throw dice and have some fun. Those guys matter more than the Steleks, Dashs and Jawas. :)Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-36829520035008480812011-09-16T23:23:06.045-04:002011-09-16T23:23:06.045-04:00Tordeck man, I feel ya. I deserve a good beatdown ...Tordeck man, I feel ya. I deserve a good beatdown sometimes and I do take it on the chin when it happens. But in that particular game, both of us knew the game was over before it began, and after his first shot of the game, it was set and match. Without my raider moving up 12 and dieing in range for me to use it as a spring board, I was cooked. <br /><br />But a couple of times I tried to suggest that it was over lets just wrap it up and he insisted I still had a chance. Game on! <br /><br />But yes. I got smacked around. I will take it out on you. :)Jawaballshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06188462457051627625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-45711475395873778242011-09-16T20:56:28.299-04:002011-09-16T20:56:28.299-04:00Damn Jawa, you werent kidding when you said that y...Damn Jawa, you werent kidding when you said that you wrote a novel. <br /><br />Great post though. Very informative. Maybe one of these years I'll be able to make it to something farther away than BFS and Conflict.<br /><br />I have to say, and you know its nothing against you, I had to cackle out loud a little when you got to Sunday's game 2 report.Tordeckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05557311475115790453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-78718093437548003862011-09-16T19:36:45.385-04:002011-09-16T19:36:45.385-04:00Jawa,
Great review! Sorry we didn't get a ch...Jawa,<br /><br />Great review! Sorry we didn't get a chance to meet. Maybe next year!<br /><br />I completely agree from a noob perspective that this checked all the boxes from what I wanted to experience.<br /><br />Grats on the best mini!<br /><br />HaxHaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07002712847409020142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-14212221083253269912011-09-16T19:10:42.441-04:002011-09-16T19:10:42.441-04:00Good review. You really captured my views as well....Good review. You really captured my views as well. Congrats again on a beautifully painted army! (I was the guy with the blue and yellow suns marines). I thought it was a real fun weekend but I would have to agree on the length of the awards ceremony and the dimly lit space.Brian Carlsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06761475585889389501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-25428021657504543542011-09-16T18:27:52.448-04:002011-09-16T18:27:52.448-04:00Again... an excellent report!
Well... the first h...Again... an excellent report!<br /><br />Well... the first half anyway. I'll come back for the 2nd part later in the weekend. ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-16998001846806104362011-09-16T15:22:00.531-04:002011-09-16T15:22:00.531-04:00Great post Jawaballs. Captures my feelings well.Great post Jawaballs. Captures my feelings well.Hudsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09254648458761984561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2376208744490382379.post-58683737408464391222011-09-16T14:27:27.009-04:002011-09-16T14:27:27.009-04:00Nice review. grats on the best mini award. I wish ...Nice review. grats on the best mini award. I wish I lived out on the east cast and could play in all the GTs out there. Guess I'll have to settle for our cornfield Gts and Adepticon.<br /><br />But you never know, Nova is so tempting.Dunn911https://www.blogger.com/profile/04528417511673449145noreply@blogger.com