Army Comparison: What makes an army better? A community project with beginners in mind.

Here is an ice post to help noobies who are looking for good starting 40k info. While it is intended for beginners, I'm sure vets will have their input. Lets put our heads together and create a document that helps every one!

A recent comment on my youtube channel about IG being the "Strongest Codex" and some guys disagreeing with that statement has me thinking. So here are my thoughts! First of all, at Bolscon, the Best General was a guard player. He was a really nice guy and fun to talk to, but by his own admittance, was more of a nooby. He was playing a thrown together army designed to win tournaments. Nothing wrong with that! The point here is that a relative newcomer won Best General in an 80+ man tournament simply by playing a "Point and Shoot" army. I have seen it happen before in 4th edition with guys playing Genestealer armies. He lost the overall title to a Tyranid player who was a veteran. We will get into experience giving players the edge later on.

This discussion is about strength of lists. It is my contention that the Best General Guard list, in the hands of a Veteran 40k player, is unbeatable in standard play. Of course odd mission rules help to level the playing field, but for this discussion, we will keep to the more simple scenarios. (Though I feel that this guard list is versatile enough to excell at any scenario, odd mission or funky rules you can throw at it.)

So on with the point of this post! How do we measure an armies strength, and when is that army categorized as Broken or Overmatched?

Lets come up with some nice categories with which to measure our armies. Mobility, Fire Power, Assault Power and Survivability are 4 nice places to start.

If you look at most games, you will see the 'Base' army or unit. This is the army that truely excells at nothing, but is good at every thing. In most combat racing games, there is the Huge lumbering tank vehicle that is slow as hell but takes a beating, there is the tiny zoomy car that is hard to hit, but once you do it goes down fast, then there is the easy to control, sort of fast middle car that has no drawbacks or strengths. Its mediocrity is its strength! Think Mario in Super Mario Brothers Two. In the 40k world, this is the Space Marines. They have no real flaws, but no real focus! This is where armies vary in this is where they must be measured. So using the Marines as a base, the Eldar for example excell at mobility but surrender survivability, while the Tau excell at fire power but fail in assault.

So let us come up with a scale. I open to you guys a forum on what and how to measure. I will begin this with the four categories I started. Remember, this is for newcomers, so lets keep it video game simple. Lets rate each army based on:

Mobility: The overall speed of an armies units.
Survivability: The overall ability of an army to survive. Related to Armor Values and dirty tricks like Holo Fields.
Fire Power: Duh!
Assault: Blood Angels are obviously a stronger Assault Army then Tau. Why?
Point Cost per model: Does an armies point cost hurt or help them?

Lets dig deep here with our ratings. Blood Angels can take 9 ten man assault squads for example. Obviously, codex knowledge is a must. We are writing this with new comers in mind, so while something may be obvious to you, it is likely not obvious to a beginner, or even a vet for that matter.

Let us rate the armies on a scale from 1 to 20. 20 being the best. I suggest we start with Space Marines since they will base from which we compare every thing else.

My goal here is to create a nice working document that can be linked and referenced by beginners who are coming into the game. This will solve two things. First of all, it will help beginners who are afraid to ask questions and are intimiadated by some of these blogs that may be way over their head. But also, it will give bloggers a direction to point questions to! When some one asks "Hey Ron, I love your blog but I have no clue what the heck you are talking about since I am new... what is a better army, Space Marines or Eldar?" We can say, great question, visit SUCHANDSUCH for your answer!

So the invitation is out to all of you. Comment. Give your appraisals. If you feel marines are a 20 on Survivability, please state why. This is not a debate post. State your input and opinions and I will summarize the scores and feed back into a working document. We want to come up with a firm evaluation of Space Marines first, then we can work on the individual SM off shoot codexes. Once that is done, we can move on to Eldar and beyond. If you are an eldar master, start compiling your evidence, and when the time comes, post it up!

So, have at it! Jawaballs

Edit One: Added "Point Cost" as another category for army comparison.
Edit Two: 9/17/09 Added "Versatility" as another category to reflect the changes to each list brought on by additions of "Special Characters" etc. This measures an armies ability to change itself to meet any needs. I set the Space Marine "versatility" at 20 to begin with.

How to play warhammer 40k. 40k for Noobies: Dealing with Independent Characters in Close Combat

Ash asked a question about my last post and brought up Independent Characters. How do you deal with them? There are a few tricks that I pull. I will go over them now.

Ignore them! If you are charging a squad that has an IC attached to it... ignore the IC! Put all of your attacks against the squad. If you have a higher initiative, even better since you can wipe them out and they cannot hit you back. I do this all the time with my assaulters since I use Corbulo who grants them Furious Charge (+1 initiative and Str). My guys go first most of the time. So, if I am running 10 assault marines up against a squad of marines with an IC attached, I put all of the attacks against the squad and ignore the IC. Now, hopefully I will kill the squad out right, or at least do a lot of wounds. Yes, the IC will nail me back... but hopefully I do so many wounds to the squad, that I still end up winning combat. This will force the squad I attacked, and the IC to make a morale test modified by the number of kills I won by. Hopefully you won by a lot and the IC will fail his morale test... If he is a non space marine, you can kill him with a sweeping advance having never even laid a finger on him. If he IS a SM, he will fall back. You have the choice, do NOT choose to sweeping advance since that will just force him to remain in combat. You want him to run. Let him go.

What you do now is simply follow him off the table. Do not assault him again... Space Marines automaticlly regroup, but NOT if there is an enemy squad within 6" of them. He will not be able to regroup, and you can just follow him until he is off the table edge. Of course if he is fearless that is another matter.

Another option: REALLY ignore him.

Sometimes you will find yourself in the position to completely ignore the IC. What I mean is that the squad he is attached to is so big, or other circumstances like terrain prohibit him from getting into Base to base contact no matter which way he goes. For example, a huge squad of Ork Boys has a Warboss attached. He is leading the charge. Jump your assault marines to the back of the squad and assault... he will probably not be able to get into base to base since he can only move 6". Just make sure your guys are 6" away from him but still B2B with the orks. He will still be in the combat, but unable to attack, and will still be forced to make a morale test if you win combat. And orks ARE vulnerable to Sweeping Advance. Win that combat by 6 or 7 kills, and he is done. (Orks are fearless until their squad is reduced below 11... do a lot of kills.)

Use force against force.

Do whatever it takes to get YOUR IC into B2B with his. Hopefully you are packing a bigger punch and will kill his IC with your own. OR if you have a weak chump almost dead IC with one wound left, sacrifice him. Send in your IC against his. He will be too tempted to not kill him. He has to choose between your IC and your squad. He lays his 8 attacks down on your IC and kills him. That is still only 1 wound towards combat resolution. Your squad attacks his squad, wipes them out, you win combat, the IC has to make a modified leadership test. If he is not a marine, you can sweeping advance and kill him. If he is, again, chase him off the table.

So, when dealing with enemy IC. Look at the bigger picture... or 5th dimension. If he is attached, slaughter his squad and force him to make a test. If he is not attached, send one model to assault him and drag him in, but focus the rest of your shots on the squad. If you have a more powerful IC, let them fight it out, maybe even help him with the squads power fist or sword. If your IC is a chump, sacrifice him. Kill the squad, force a test, kill him in Sweeping Advance or chase him off the table.

Jawaballs!

40k for Noobys continued! On with the assault.

Due to great response, I have decided to make the 40k for noobies a regular thing. This is NOT just for noobies. Maybe you just returned to the game and missed the last two years of innovation... maybe you are a vet just looking for an alternative view point. Whatever the cause, there is no shame in reading this! :)

So let me recap. I talked about things to think about before you assault. Don't shoot if your enemy taking a model off will leave you out of assault range. Be careful what you assault... (Make sure you can kill it and not be slaughtered) Watch for initiative, weapon skill and strength. It is OK to ask your opponent the stats of each of his models. If he has a problem with that, he is a douche. Pick your assaults wisely!

In my last post, I brought a Space Marine Assault squad into assault with 3... yes THREE Eldar Guardian squads. That is 10 marines vs 30 Eldar. I even sent the marine with the power fist after a nearby Viper just to prove a point. Remember, so long as YOUR squad remains in coherency, you can assault any thing you want, after your first model has made into base to base with his. So, send in your first model, get it base to base. Then you can move all of the rest of your models to assault whatever is in range. In my example, I managed to get the Sgt. with power fist into base to base with a Viper, 5 marines into combat with 1 Eldar squad, and 2 marines into combat with each of the other two squads.

What happens next? Well your opponent gets to bring his guys into the fray. All of the Eldar that are base to base with Marines are now in combat, including any behind those models that are B2B but still within 2". Now he gets to move any UNengaged models up to get into assault. It will look like these Eldar are now swarming all over the marines, and it will look scary! Dont fret Marines. Here comes the fun.

Who goes first?

In old versions of 40k Assault was wonky. You would go in, and your good models would go first, wipe out a bunch of guys, and your opponent would take off guys that were base to base with the rest of your models, leaving them stranded and unable to attack. Now, once assault has begun, no matter what, all models will get their attacks, regardless of who went first. Providing, of course, that the models are still alive when their initiative comes up.

In this case, Guardians are initiative 4, and so are marines. So every one will get to attack. Lets break it down:

5 Marines are fighting 10 Eldar
2 Marines are fighting 10 Eldar
2 Marines are fighting 10 Eldar
1 Marine is Charging a viper that did not move.

The lone marine is not engaged with any eldar, and has a power fist. The fist reduces his initiative to 1 or Last. We will save him for later.

Lets do the big fight.

5 assault maries attack 10 Eldar. An assault marine has 1 base attack. He has two close combat weapons, a pistol and a sword, so he gets a bonus attack for that. He also charged, so he gets a 3rd attack. There are 5 marines attacking for a total of 15 attacks. We will do averages here. When determining if you hit, you compare weapon skill. A Guardian has a WS 3 and a SM has WS of 4. A glance at the To Hit (Assault) chart will show you that SM need a 3 to hit the guardians. They are better with swords. We will say 60% of them hit for an estimate of 9 hits. (Screw math)

Now time to wound. Once you hit something, you have to wound it. You may have just glanced the shot... etc. So of your 9 hits, you need to roll a die to see how many wound. The Str of a SM is 4. The Toughness of an Eldar Guardian is 3. Comparing the two scores, you will wound on a roll of 3. There is a chart on the last page of the rule book. So again, roughly 60 percent of the hits will wound. Of the 9 hits, we will say 6 wounded.

Now for armor saves. Guardians have a 5+ save, so we can say that for every 6 wounded, 4 will die based on the dice. Close enough. So 4 dead guardians. The number of dead is important because this forces a leadership test. If a squad suffers 25% losses of it's current value, it has to make a leadership test. This squad suffered 40% loss and will have to test at the end of combat. But all 10 of those guardians get to attack since they have the same initiative as the SM.

A WS of 3 attacking WS of 4 will need a 4 to hit after a quick glance at the book. Guardians only get 1 attack. They suck in assault. So 10 attacks, needing a 4 will leave 5 hits. Now time to wound.

Eldar Guardians are Str 3. Marines are Toughness 4. S3 will need a 5 to wound T4 models after glancing at the last page of the rule book. Not good odds. It is like 33 percent... we will say 2 wound. Now the marines have to make 2 saves. They get a 3+ save, and we will say they both pass.

We have to keep track of scores here. This is all one huge combat, with several small mini battles going on. At the end, it is all resolved as one fight. After game one, Marines are up 4 to 0.

Now Eldar squad 2 is fighting 2 marines. The marines have 6 attacks, and need 4s to hit. We will say that true to the odds, 3 hit. Then again, true to the odds, 2 wound. Due to Eldars crap save, 2 more die. The Eldar hit back, with their 4+ to hit, and land 5 hits. With their crap Strength, they will have a tough time, we will give them the benefit of the doubt this time, and give them 3 wounds. Now, two marines have to make 3 saves. We will say one goes down.

Score after game 2, Marines 6, Eldar 1.

We will give the third game the same score, but give the Eldar one more kill due to lucky rolls. So, final tally of kills for the 10 Marines vs 30 Eldar is 8 kills for the Marines, and 2 for the Eldar.

But what about our Squad Leader? He charged an immobile viper. If a vehicle has NOT moved in the previous turn, all assaults against it are auto hits. A power fist doubles the models Str in assault. A marine has a 4 Str, which becomes 8 with the fist. Fists are so clunky and big, that a model using one does NOT get a bonus attack for having two close combat weapons. But he does get his charge bonus. A veteran has 2 base attacks, and one bonus for the charge for a total of 3. All 3 hit automaticly. Now to hurt the viper.

A Viper has armor value 10, and is open topped. This is going to go VERY badly for the viper. To damage vehicles, you compare Strength vs Armor Value. The Str of the Marine is 8 vs the armor of the vehicle which is 10. The marine has to score equal to or above the armor value to hurt the vehicle. You roll a d6 and add the total to the score of 8. We will say the results for the 3 attacks are a 1, a 4 and a 6. In this case, a result of 1 is not necessarily an auto failure to wound, (such is the case in most other results) But 8 + 1 is only 9 and does not equal the value of the armor, so the 1 is a failure to wound. But the 4 and 6 both PENETRATE the vehicle. 8+4 is 12, which beats armor 10. The marine gets to roll two dice on the damage table. He is punching holes right through the hull of the ship and grabbing the pilot! He rolls a 2 and a 4. Looking at the Vehicle Damage Table will show you that the results will be a Crew Stunned and Immobilized result. BUT, the vehicle is open topped. So the marine gets to add 1 to his scores. That makes them a Weapon Destroyed and Vehicle Destroyed result. The viper is now dead, and remains on the table as terrain.

Now time to make morale tests. The total score was 8 for the marines and 2 for the Eldar. The difference of the two scores is 6. Sadly for the Eldar, they have to minus 6 from their leadership rolls. Since the Eldar lost combat, that is, the Marines scored more kills, ALL THREE of the eldar squads need to make a leadership test. (Leadership/Morale... same difference for this discussion) Guardians have a leadership of 8. They have to roll snake eyes to pass their test, and all three fail. Things are going VERY ugly for the guardians, and here is where Marines shine.

Time for Sweeping Advance.

Since the Eldar lost combat, and failed their leadership tests. They need to fall back. The eldar roll 2d6 and fall back that many inches. However, the marines may choose to Sweeping Advance... or Massacre them. If the marines choose to keep them in assault, they need to make a compared initiative roll vs the Eldar. Each squad rolls a D6 and adds their initiative. The marines roll a D6 and get a 5 so the eldar have to BEAT a 9. Their initiave is 4 so they have to roll 6s. A tie in this case will still mean that the Marines may Sweeping Advance. All three of the eldar squads roll under 6. Which means the marines have successfully Sweeping Advanced all three of the squads. Sadly for the Eldar, this means that all 3 squads are instantly destroyed. Thats right, 10 marines just cut down 30 Eldar and a Viper, and only lost 2 marines.

Now, this was based on average rolls. So it is a pretty good indicator of what will happen most of the time. Odds are that most opponents will not give you a juicy target like 3 guardian squads bunched up next to a viper that has not moved... but you never know.

So...

When assaulting, look for juicy targets. If you have a badass assault squad, look for multiple squads that you can assault... And if you have the resources, send your power fist after a tank or something.

Phew my fingers hurt! :)