Hi Folks! A bit ago I posted up about Vindicators and we had some great discussion. Well, I got this email concerning the subject and wanted to share it with you all.
Hey there Jawaballs, this is Craig forum name Mr. Biscuits down at Librarium Online. I’ve been a long time reader of yours but recently noticed you talking down the Vindicator so I thought I’d run a few tactics and a bunch of numbers by ya in defense of this truly awesome tank.
In my lists I almost always include all 3 possible Vindicators for many tactical purposes, but for the sake of argument I will show you how they perform in my 1750 point competitive list:
HQ
Librarian Shield of Sanguineous Fear of the Darkness ***
Troops
5 Assault Marines Remove Jump Packs 100
Razorback Lascannon Twin Linked Plasmaguns Dozer Blade Hunter Killer Missile 70
5 Assault Marines Remove Jump Packs 100
Razorback Lascannon Twin Linked Plasmaguns Dozer Blade Hunter Killer Missile 70
5 Assault Marines Remove Jump Packs 100
Razorback Twin Linked Assault Cannon Dozer Blade 60
5 Assault Marines Remove Jump Packs 100
Razorback Lascannon Twin Linked Plasmaguns Dozer Blade Hunter Killer Missile 70
5 Assault Marines Remove Jump Packs 100
Razorback Lascannon Twin Linked Plasmaguns Dozer Blade Hunter Killer Missile 70
Fast Attack
2 Land Speeders Typhoon Missile Launchers 180
Land Speeder Typhoon Missile Launcher 90
Land Speeder Typhoon Missile Launcher 90
Heavy Support
Vindicator Dozer Blade 150
Vindicator Dozer Blade 150
Vindicator Dozer Blade 150
In this list I literally use my Vindicators as mobile shooty Razorback shields. 3 Vindicators angled properly so that the back edges are touching can create a shield where the front AVs of 13 are the only available to an opponent early game that doesn't use a refused flank deployment or an Outflanking/ Deep Striking unit. Behind this shield I put 3 of my Razor squads whose elevated weapon platforms are able to fire upon my enemy without generating cover saves from my Vindicator screen until they are about 8" away from the Vindicator or less in the case of armored targets. The centre most of the 3 Razorbacks will always be the one containing my Librarian in order to give 5+ cover saves to my screening Vindicators and my other Razorbacks should I be flanked. Approximate diagram follows:
ENEMY DEPLOYMENT
[ ] O [] ooo
O oooo [ ]
[ ] oo X
MY DEPLOYMENT
\ \[ ]/ /
[ ][ ][ ]
Furthermore, a Vindicator on a Fast chassis is often able to avoid up to 40% of the cover saves your opponent may try to get from them, primarily units hiding behind features like forests, buildings and rubble to avoid difficult terrain. 12 inches is a quarter of the entire board in a single turn after all.
As to the accuracy, with BS of 4 you are looking at an accuracy chart of:
Direct Hit 44.4445%
1” Scatter 7.4074%
2” Scatter 9.2592%
3” Scatter 11.1111%
4” Scatter 9.2592%
5” Scatter 7.4074%
6” Scatter 5.5555%
7” Scatter 3.7037%
8” Scatter 1.8519%
Against most tanks you are looking at having the hole over your target on any direct hit or 1” scatter which is 53.8519% of the time but against a vehicle with a Land Raider sized chassis you will hit about half of the time on a 2’ scatter thanks to the tank being roughly 6” long but only 4” wide (I measured while writing this to ensure accuracy) which means your accuracy will be about 58.4815%, much more than the 33% most people give the tank credit for. Anyways these numbers will translate into the following based upon the target:
BS4 Demolisher Cannon vs. AV10 regular tank chassis, 53.8519% hit:
0% Glance 53.8519% Penetrate 53.8519% inflict damage
8.9753% of shots will result in Shaken
8.9753% of shots will result in Stunned
8.9753% of shots will result in Weapon Destroyed
8.9753% of shots will result in Immobilized
8.9753% of shots will result in Wrecked
8.9753% of shots will result in Exploded
BS4 Demolisher Cannon vs. AV11 regular tank chassis, 53.8519% hit:
1.4959% Glance 52.3560% Penetrate 53.8519% inflict damage
9.4739% of shots will result in Shaken
8.9753% of shots will result in Stunned
8.9753% of shots will result in Weapon Destroyed
8.7260% of shots will result in Immobilized
8.7260% of shots will result in Wrecked
8.7260% of shots will result in Exploded
BS4 Demolisher Cannon vs. AV12 regular tank chassis, 53.8519% hit:
4.4877% Glance 47.8683% Penetrate 52.3560% inflict damage
9.9220% of shots will result in Shaken
8.4261% of shots will result in Stunned
8.4261% of shots will result in Weapon Destroyed
8.4261% of shots will result in Immobilized
7.9781% of shots will result in Wrecked
7.9781% of shots will result in Exploded
BS4 Demolisher Cannon vs. AV13 regular tank chassis, 53.8519% hit:
4.4877% Glance 40.3889% Penetrate 44.8766% inflict damage
8.9754% of shots will result in Shaken
7.4795% of shots will result in Stunned
7.4795% of shots will result in Weapon Destroyed
7.4795% of shots will result in Immobilized
6.7480% of shots will result in Wrecked
6.7315% of shots will result in Exploded
BS4 Demolisher Cannon vs. AV14 regular tank chassis, 53.8519% hit:
4.4877% Glance 29.9177% Penetrate % inflict damage
7.2303% of shots will result in Shaken
5.7343% of shots will result in Stunned
5.7343% of shots will result in Weapon Destroyed
5.7343% of shots will result in Immobilized
4.9863% of shots will result in Wrecked
4.9863% of shots will result in Exploded
BS4 Demolisher Cannon vs. AV14 Land Raider chassis, 58.4815% hit:
4.8735% Glance 32.4897% Penetrate % inflict damage
7.8516% of shots will result in Shaken
6.2272% of shots will result in Stunned
6.2272% of shots will result in Weapon Destroyed
6.2272% of shots will result in Immobilized
5.4150% of shots will result in Wrecked
5.4150% of shots will result in Exploded
Although these percentages may seem low to many players they are in fact quite significant. In comparison an Autocannon Predator with Lascannon Sponsons will only do the following against any vehicle with an AV of 14:
BS4 Predator vs. AV14 vehicle
22.2222% Glance 22.2222% Penetrate 44.4444% inflict damage
14.8148% of turns firing will result in Shaken
7.4074% of turns firing will result in Stunned
7.4074% of turns firing will result in Weapon Destroyed
7.4074% of turns firing will result in Immobilized
3.7004% of turns firing will result in Wrecked
3.7004% of turns firing will result in Exploded
Based upon these numbers the Predator in your proposed build will be more effective at hindering AV 14 vehicles such as Land Raiders where as the Vindicator will be more effective at neutralizing them thanks to a much greater chance of penetrating whilst still keeping the maneuverability to fire whilst maintaining a high movement rate when the Predator would be restricted to a 6” move if you would want fire at full effect.
Simply put, you got lucky blasting the 7 Land Raider list off the table at ‘Ard Boyz and by the numbers would have had a much better shot (pun intended) had you gone with Vindicators instead of you Auto/Las Predators.
If this wasn’t enough the Vindicator’s main armament, the Demolisher Cannon, is one of the most flexible weapons in the game. Thanks to their impressive Strength and AP they can instant kill some of the really nasty elite Deathstar units such as Grey Knight Paladins, Nob Bikers and Thunderwolf Cavalry without allowing saves. My 3 Vindicators have caused endless headaches for an Ork Green Tide player in my area who is forced to bunch up his more than 150 Boyz for me as they literally don’t have enough table to spread out early on and like you said, they can reliably kill 4 Space Marines a turn IF your opponent was wise enough to spread out the squad. If he isn’t, well we’ve all heard the 1 shot 10 kill stories…
The Vindicator may “make people pee their pants”, but this isn’t because they are an over-rated 4th edition unit preying on those who can’t wrap their heads on 5th edition. It’s because it is an effective unit rightfully feared on any battlefield on the 41st Millennium.
What can I say other than fantastic! This response is the spirit of what is good about the internet. Instead of blasting off like a troll, he disagreed with me, but wrote a well thought out, logical and appropriate response supported by fact! And more fact, and more fact. (Well stats, and we all know that stats are in deed NOT fact, ask Ted Nagle who lost 4 terminators to a volley of bolt pistol fire from my assault squad, but still.)
Well, rather than argue, I will put three vindicators on the table and find out for myself. it's time to bust out the old models. Now to find a victim... FRITZ! Look for some batreps soon! And thanks for the submission Mr. Biscuits.
Jawaballs