GK list building?

Ok folks, lets open this up to the world.  I am looking for some input on my Grey Knights list.  First of all, I decided to do my GKs after I painted that charity Standard Bearer.  He looked too nice not to do an army!  I had all the models from store credit loot from tournaments.  I won one, and got second at the next, and earned myself enough store credit to pick up quite a large army and then some.

Painting the charity model, then having it win a Crystal Brush at Templecon for Best Sci Fi model, sealed the deal.  I wanted to paint a truly competitive army that could compete for Best Painted.

What to build?  Well I consulted my friend Alex Fennel, who plays for the British ETC team, and we came up with a plan and some basic rules.

I didn't want to jump the band wagon and flood the table with Psy Dreads and Assassins.  I have faced too many of these armies and they are no fun to play against, and can't be much fun to play. As if you really need advice when playing the double land raider assassin bomb and/or psy dreads and acolyte spam any way. I know I could paint this list up beautiful, and take it to a GT and blow people away, but that's not what I want.

  I'm not saying I would win any given GT, but I'm pretty sure I could take Neil Gilstrap's or Rob Baer's GK lists to my next GT and probably be in it to win it.  Rob throttled me at last year's Nova with his double land raider assassin army. He didn't even bother playing it in the actual Nova because it was broken. I don't remember what he had. Here is a list by Masta Shake that is an interesting variant. No dreads but check out the Vindicare! Cool. Bad ass list and I'm sure it is going to be awesome to behold because he is a true artist, but I want to play Grey Knights and this Grey Knight list has none.  (Techmarines and a librarian don't count.)  He is packing some serious fire power and should be near the top of the standings at the end of Bolscon.  My problem with this list is why do Grey Knights exist at all when the Inquisition can blow away most armies out there with lowly acolytes.  How much love could I put into doing this army? A bunch of assassin whores and chicken shit acolytes hiding in transports...

So my first rule, I want a mostly GK army. I'm not above playing some acolytes to take advantage of the cheap troops, but I want the bulk of my army to be Jawa Grey power armor.

Flexibility is a must.  I am building an army on the dawn of 6th edition, and I have to build an army that can compete both in the here and now, and six months from now when I land in Denver for Feast of Blades.  So again, I think that you can't go wrong with infantry.

It has to be an army I can get into.  I am creating a work of art, so I need some flavor.  A reason to care won't hurt.

So with those rules in mind, I came up with a mostly foot infantry GK list.  First of all, I wanted to have Terminators at the core of the army, keeping in line with the GK codex fluff.  I wanted to also use the Forgeworld Inquisitor Hector Rex model I won at a GT last year

HQ Librarian Terminator. Force Sword, Quicksilver, Shrouding

x10 Terminators. Psybolt ammo, 1 hammer, 1, banner, x2 psycannons, 1 sword and the rest Halbreds. (My Justicar had a sword before I made any decisions.)

Right here I had a decent base. Survivable and powerful. Also very pretty models and striking on the table.

My GK Terminator tester model WIP

If I can make the rest of my army look like this, I am confident I can compete for painting honors at any GT.

So what then from there?  Well I had about 9 boxes of GK infantry. I decided to go with a big troops base of GK strike squads.

Grey Knight Strike Squad x3.  10 Knights each, x2 psycans, x2 halbreds, 1 hammer, swords.

Now I have my army. 30 Grey Knights and 10 terminators.

What else? Well I like the Purifiers in the codex.  I also wanted more psycannons. So 10 Purifiers!

Purifiers. x10, x4 psycans, x1 hammer, rest Halbreds

That got my model count up to 51.  Nice.

Now I needed some color. I toyed around with adding a generic inquisitor and retinue, but after looking at the points, I simply could not justify not taking Coteaz. He is that awesome.  Plus a nicely painted nonmetallic gold Coteaz will make a nice focal point amongst all the Jawa Grey.

From there I was looking to finish off the focal point, so I decided to go with an Acolyte Warrior squad in Chimera.  Here is where I just don't know. I definitely want the color. I painted up a tester for a Kasrkin with Melta to make myself a little mini Melta Vet squad and mostly finished Coteaz.

So there you go. I have played a couple of test games, toying with Rhinos which just get obliterated and other stuff.  I just don't know where to go. Here is the list. I grabbed a couple of acolyte squads to give myself some Chimeras. And have points to give a few squads Psybolt Ammo. Hechmen are on their own, reserving hopefully until turn five then running into the fray and going to ground.  The purifiers and another squad hijack the rides.

LIbrarian Terminator with Sword, Qicksilver and Shrouding

Henchmen x3, Chimera
Henchmen x3, Chimera

Terminators x10, 2 psycan, 1 hammer, 1 sword, 6 halbreds
Knights x10, 2 psycan, 1 hammer, 2 halbred, 5 swords
Knights x10, 2 psycan, 1 hammer, 2 halbred, 5 swords
Knights x10, 2 psycan, 1 hammer, 2 halbred, 5 swords

Purifiers x10, 4 psycan, 1 hammer, 6 halbred

If some one can tell me how to upload a PDF of my Army Builder file to here, I will.

Right now I am sitting at around 1924 points.

So, do I break up my 10 man squads and go razor spam ala Nick Nanavati?

Alex told me about a guy he knows in the UK who has done well with a similar list to what I have come up with, but with Dreadknights. What do you guys think?

Looking forward to hearing some input from you guys who have been playing GKs.  Lets try to avoid theory hammer and go with what we know works!



fester said...

Righto, suggestions from someone who gets mauled by foot GK as opposed to a player.

1. You have range issues. You need, traditionally 2 Psyfledreads (no more) to make the range issues go away.
2. You have speed issues. By this I _DO NOT_ mean mech up. Trade 1 x 10 GKSS for 10 GKI with either dual cannons or dual incinerators, probably incinerators
3. Your acolytes are wasted. Either add 6 Psykers to each squad, or make them triple melta to that they can be of some use against those dual-LR Deathcult armies.
4. A GM with toys would be very nice - for grand mastery and psycotrope nades. Re-roll 1's on 3 squads with psybolt is not nice when you get hit. I personally have seen combat squads evaporate from a single squad's shooting.

Tried to not do too much theoryhammer, just going on what I have seen tear me a new asshole over the course of a few events

Jawaballs said...

Nice Fester, just what I want, experience. :)

swanson4969 said...

I have been running a Mordrak List for a while here in Chicago and doing well on the local tourney scene
Mordrak + 3 Ghostknight
Libby w/ 5 powers and homeR
5 Termies w/4 halberd, hammer, psycannon
10 Strikes 2 psycannons psybolt ammo
10 Interceptors 2 psycannons psybolt ammo
Raven w/TLMM & TLLC
Dreadknight w/teleporter and incinerator
Rifelman dread

The beauty of it is I can reserve everything. I have the threat of the first turn deep strike w/out error w/libby with warp rift. I hardly ever do it as they and the libby usually ride in the raven, but the threat if it makes people worry about deployment. If i do drop him down then I can have everyone deep strike off the libby's homer. I can bundle the dread, termies and raven all together to take advantage of psychic communion. Usually give the interceptors and something else the scoring ability. Don't underestimate the power of psybolt ammo on large squads. If you are set on going on foot defintiely use it will be more important than the halberds. Causes a ton of wounds on MEQ and shreds everything else. The jumping knight is a great problem solver and can get those pesky tanks and long fangs
I am thinking of going with a regular GM just ot use the neat toys and then can start him on the table and he will have a long range gun but will have to see.

Michael Hogan said...

1) I really love the Henchman paintjob. You put a lot of time into the weapon (well, it looks like you did!) which really makes a difference in the end model. Usually, I just say "It's a weapon" and do some small highlighting, but what you did really makes it stand out.

2) I have to agree with the Henchman. Even if you reserve them for as long as possible, they are just too weak and almost useless. The Chimera is nice, especially for the Purifiers, but not necessary.

3) Running the Purifiers like you do, I love them with a Razorback. I almost always combat squad, even on kill point missions, and while it can be painful, it is definitely a fun and useful setup. And just a heads up, I think you mean 5x Halberds with them, heh. I haven't done the math, but you could be paying an extra TWO points.

4) Dreads (Venerable or not) work really well with the Librarian when you have vehicles for them to piggy back behind. I'm not going to argue whether or not you can shoot over vehicles or not with Dreads, as it really depends on the situation, but they are tried and tested positive to work. And I would also agree that such firepower is very important (if not necessary) for an army like this. Anyways, 3+ Cover Save on a Dreadnought is oh so helpful, even when you almost always manage to fail the cover saves.
How you want to make the changes to fit Dreads in is up to you, really.

Michael Hogan said...

Oh, as for a list, I understand you do not want to go with Dread spam, but again, they are almost necessary with most lists. But then again, only 2 or 3 vehicles total is just asking for them to die, so it is a tough trade. How can you balance no vehicles and all vehicles to something hybrid?

If you are at all curious, here is what I usually run.

Librarian with Sword, Might of Titan, Shrouding, and Sanctuary (I love taking Sanctuary, but I can understand those who say not to bother as it locks you out from Hammerhand if you also Shrouding-ed)

5 Terminators, 1 Psycannon, 1 Daemonhammer, and 4 Halberds

2 x 10 Purifiers with 4 Psycannons, 5 Halberds, and 1 Daemonhammer with a Razorback with Psybolt Ammo
(Knight has Halberd and goes with Psycannons)

2 x 10 Strike Squad with 2 Psycannon and Rhino

3 x Dreads with double Autocannons and Psybolt Ammo

Your twist on this could drop Rhinos, take more Terminators, drop a Dread, and add more Terminators. Not saying this is any better or my list is even great, but it has worked for me for a long time. Just my 2 cents.

breng77 said...

I think you have a couple of things going on here.

First is the desire to have a visually stunning army (which you could probably do with any units if you wanted too.) But models like the GK termies are more likely to stand out on a table than lots of strike squads in Razorbacks.

Second is to have a competitive army without Dread/acolyte spam.

If you are dead set against using dreads I really think you need to ensure that your army is durable enough to get to mid field and capable of doing damage once there. The second of these concerns is not too tough if you go with a lot of psycannons, as you can put out a ton of shots, the issue is that GKs are not all that durable point for point. What this means is that you will need to do is be able to put some threats down field for your opponent to deal with while the rest of your army moves into postition.

TO me this means either dreads, interceptors or as Alex had mentioned to you dread knights in an infantry based army. Either that or I think you should almost look to spam more purifiers for a greater concentration of psycannon fire.

One thing that I think most people don't consider with the current list you are running is that 3 acolytes are super cheap and giving them any upgrades (unless they are staying in a vehicle is pointless. More often than not people don't shoot at the acolytes as they are not a threat, and can be easily hidden. I say try out your current build for a few games and see what works and what doesn't, and tweak it around your core of Termies and a Libby. A possible Idea that may appeal to you was a list I played at BFS using Cotaez, 3 Dreads, 10 termies, then 2-3 Razors full of purifiers and a bunch of 5 man acolyte squads in Razors. Though this list does not have a ton of Grey Knights (25ish), it still has the same terminator core.

Jawaballs said...

Great stuff, thanks guys!

Yes I know acolytes suck. They are useless but that is the point. They really take up more space on paper than they need to. The two units are a total of 24 points. But from what I have seen in people using them out of reserve, they are a bargain. Those little squads almost always survive and run into the game to hide behind terrain, or dive into immobilized transports. 24 points is almost free! But it allows me to buy Chimeras for my shooty squads.

Gota go to work, more later.

Will Wright said...

I know the proper post is coming soon,but I cannot wait.
The Hooded Stranger was the character I was talking about last week ;)

Ron Saikowski said...

I can't speak to the gaming aspect... but I like the gold on Coteaz as I bet it will make for a nice contrast against the sea of grey troops.

Ron, FTW

Jawaballs said...

Haha Will, too funny. I wanted to give it a couple days so as to avoid ruffling the feathers of those who for some weird reason have not watched the episode yet. And thanks Ron. yes, Coteaz helps with adding contrast. I throw him in with the terminators, and he almost jumps off the table. :)

Black Bob Craufurd said...

Jawa - Ive been running a foot list and I have to say you need interceptors-

They have amazing speed and can truly catch players off guard.

A tech Marine would not go astray in the list as well- bolster ruins and having a grenade carrier not focused in your HQ slots will give you some flexibility.

Finally you need Servo skulls if your going to use summoning.

That power is the sleeper as far as army flexibility and the skulls help with reducing scatter. On several occasions I have been able pull units from a tough position and re-enforce the main push and or just simply pull in units to add to the main assault.

Moving to the mid field early is needed.

My list at 2000 will be hopefully with testing (currently sitting at 1750)

Empyrean brain mines, Might of titan, Sanctuary, Shrouding, Summoning

Coteaz (but may change to a Ordo Xenos with a conversion beamer and Psyker with holy communion)

Rad and Psychotroke Grenades 2 Servo Skulls

Vindicare Assassin

Inquisitorial Henchman

3 Death-cults
7 Psykers
1 Mystic

10 terminators, 6 Halberds 2 Hammers 2 Psycannons, Banner and Psybolt Ammo

10 Strike Knights 1 hammer , 2 Psycannons and Psybolt Ammo

10 Interceptors 1 Hammer, 2 Psycannons and Psybolt Ammo

Psyflmen Dread x2

I think it gives me a good spread of antitank- add in the psykers for some templates if i choose also the conversion beamer as well-

The troop choices are solid and hard to break when in cover as well as hard to take on in assault(terminators).

Psybolt ammo- dont leave home without it! wounding T4 on 3' and basically having an army of heavy bolters - its very hard for allot of armies to deal with that.

Vindicare to remove annoying characters and or pop that annoying high Armor tank.

Dreads well you know what they do.....

Finally the interceptors for the 30 inch shunt for late game contesting as well as early game maneuvers and side shots on parking lots-

Also you should never really have much trouble with marine A11 spam with a list like this- will generally melt away exposing the gooey underside of those pesky MSU armies.

Just my 2 cents of course :)

Jawaballs said...

Nice Black Bob. Lots of good meat there. I think interceptors are a must. I played a capture and control game yesterday where I was charging into an entire Chaos army. The oblits were taking me apart. He was content to sit on his objective and not bother for mine and shoot the crap out of me. It would have been satisfying to shunt up there at the end and contest his objective but alas. Consider them added. :)

Kraggi said...

This is a list i have used that performs very well (having won a couple of tournaments, 1 of which was a larger tournament here in scotland).

At 2000 Points.

Modrak, 5 Ghost Knights, Daemonahammer & 4 Halberds

Vindicare Assassin

Strike Squad x 10, Psycannon x 2
Terminators x 5, Psycannon
Interceptor Squad x 10, Psybolt Ammo, Incinerator x 2
Interceptor Squad x 7, Psybolt Ammo, Psycannon
Dreadknight, PT, H.Incinerator
Dreadknight, PT, H.Incinerator

In turn 1 you shut both Dreads & all Interceptors at the enemy, along with Modrak's unit arriving that puts a decent number of models up close and personnal.

The enemy has 1 turn to try and wipe out the chunks of your army that are up close... if he fails then you get lots of shooting and assaults the following turn.

This hopefully leaves your Troops holding objectives that you place in the mid table area to help out with fire support.

Lots of armies have lots of decent weapons, but very few can wipe out all of that in one turn, and thats against MSU wolf lists that I have played.

Will struggle a bit against Grey Knights and Dark Eldar, but your wouldnt want it too easy now would you?

Tim Toolen said...

It's good to hear you've added the Interceptors! While I run three Dreads in my list, I run them with Draigo, 7 Paladins, 10 man GKSS and a 10 man Interceptor squad. A Vindicare rounds it up to 2k in points.

The Interceptors push my mobility and threat range immensely, but at the same time, I've got to recommend a Grand Master in a list. The Grand Strategy rule has truly helped the flexibility of my smaller list out greatly. While perhaps not as needed for scoring units, scout moves for a Grey Knight army is very helpful. And if you do not take Draigo, then all the toys (grenades) that they have access to is also worth it.

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