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Going off the topic of Blood Angels for a post or two, what is wrong with this list?
This is not a rhetorical question... what do you all feel are the strengths and weaknesses of this Space Wolves' list? It certainly wouldn't have a good comp score, but it seems to me that it plays to the Wolves' strengths: special weapons in "Tactical squads", Counterattack, heavy weapons splitting fire, and scary psyker powers.
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1850
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HQ-
Rune Priest in Terminator armor and a Wolftooth necklace with Jaws of the World Wolf and Living Lightning.
Troops -
5 x 10 Grey Hunters with a melta, a plasma gun, a power fist, and a Mark of the Wulfen in a Rhino with extra armor.
Heavy Support -
3 x 6 Long Fangs with 5 missile launchers and a power fist
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Any thoughts?
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13 comments:
A few thoughts:
1) No wolf guard or attached HQ to any of the Grey Hunters keeps them at LD 8, which may hurt them.
2) The points spent on the 3 PF in the long fangs could be spent to buy a Land Speeder with HF & MM.
3) The terminator armor on the rune priest is a good choice.
4) I would drop one of the Grey Hunter Squads and get 4 WG with PF to go with the rest of the Grey Hunters. If you are worried about the loss of the free weapon, get the combi-weapon for the WG. Or even split the squads so that two have two plasma guns and stay back to form a defensive line while the other two have 1 meltagun and a WG with combi-melta to go out and grab objectives.
5) Use those remaining points to get a small pack of scouts with a WG leader.
Hello again, heres my viewpoint as a dedicated wolf player:
By buying a unit of 10 grey hunters you've already condemed yourself. Here is my reasoning:
- Those units are now LD 8, what happens when your vehicle blows up and they get out, you need a pinning check right? Wont it suck when you fail, I mean, LD 8 isnt exactly great.
- Ld 8 also means more chances to fail your counter attack. Counter attack is a fundamental part to space wolves. It gives you that tactical edge over most other armies, and without it, your barely any betetr than blood angels or codex marines.
- Tank shocking those large units off objectives is now simple as hell. LD8 is a major problem, so solve it, here is how:
You want a strong combat unit, and you want them to stand there ground, so the most versatile and cost effective unit is the following:
8 Grey Hunters: 228pts
Wolf Banner, Mark of the wulfen, Meltagun, Rhino.
Attached Wolf guard with Combi melta or flamer with Powerfist.
This leaves you at 12pts under your orriginal list. Now you CAN get extra armour, but most enemies will be rushing you as you can outshoot most armies with units of long fangs, and all you ahve to do is push midfield to grab objectives. Maybe go with only 2 with extra armour (those which you may throw at your opponent to secure their objective in Capt & contr games).
Next we have the long fangs. Why the power fist? Why on earth would you need that? They will never see combat, you know why? Because what on earth is going to get through your grey hunters? Any competant player will also be aware on deployment tactics to reduce the effectiveness of outflankers aswell, so they will rarely see combat.
Why has the rune priest got extra armour? He should be sitting in the rhinos providing support in the forms of an extra Power weapon, LD10 and provide psychic power support where and when needed.
Take the p.fists off and the termie armour off and get another rune priest with Living lightning and murderous huricane.
Hope that helps,
Alex.
Beaten by 7 mins >_>!!
Dropping the Fang Fists, the Terminator Armour and the Extra Armour is all excellent choices!
I'd drop the ten-men to the 8 + wolf guard; you lose out on some list prettiness, but not a lot :) And you get more pow for cheaper.
Consider a 5-Flamer in a Las-Plas Razorback to hold a home objective! Otherwise list seems like a good'un :)
Powerfists are wasted in grey hunter squads and the long fangs, remove them all and you suddenly have 200 points to spend (i think).
You don't need the plasma guns when you've got 15 krak missiles. Drop the plasma for more melta.
LD isn't a big problem if you stay in your transport so I disagree about adding wolfguard.
Remove Jaws of the World Wolf. Not worth it. Murderous Hurricane or Tempest's Wrath. Take the bird with the Rune Priest to give him one more BS for living lightning.
No Power fist in the Long Fangs.
Razorback or Rhino with wolf guard as cover for your rune priest.
@ Old shatter hands: Your kidding right, LD8 is fine? Oooook D:!
@ james: Jaws isnt worth it 0.O Have you not played orks or nids recently D:! Or even thunder termies, dieing with a 1/3 chance, fuck yeah!
http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/
^Great Spot for some awesome SW info.
I am with Killswitch all the way. I generally rock my GH like so
8 GH + 1 WG, 2 PF, 1 Melta, MotW, Wolf Standard, 1 Combi-Melta
Then generally if I have enough WG, I will equip one with termie armour & Cyclone Missile Launcher and put him with my long fangs. That is usually for my all-comers list. If I am facing heavy mech, I always rock two bare Rune Priests each with a GH Squad + WG, as well as a Vindicator to help with Elites. So far I am 10-1-0 with this list.
I like SW. A lot.
PF on Fangs is silly. Waste of points. You are better off buying a WG as a meat shield than buying a PF. At least you'll use the meat-shield ;)
5th ed non 'Fighter' characters generally are terrible these days. With low attacks and initiative [and 5th allowing them to be picked out] they really are there for the killing in mêlée.
Don't pretend the RP is anything other than a Spell caster and blocker.
Maybe chooser of the slain. Otherwise nothing.
WG for the GH.
A combi-melta, PF WG = 43 pts
GH w/ PF = 40 pts and has 1 less attack....
I know not having a proper 2nd Mg is annoying, but how many shots do you actually get per game?
T1-2 you are moving, 3-4 you are in the action, 5-6 your squad is dead or his AV is.
I'd be surprised if Mg get more than 3 shots a game and would average 2 against AV, imo.
Counter attack is Chapter tactics for the Wolves. The extra Ld makes it work much better. Considering that extra attack could be a PF one, it makes it a worthwhile investment.
Ld 8 = 26/36 or 72.2%
Ld 9 = 30/36 or 83.3%
That is an extra 11.1% over Ld8.
It is 115.4% better. That is a BIG jump.
Here is what I see as the best GH pack.
9 GH
Mg, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf standard,
WG
Combi-Mg, PF
= 208.
Rhino not included.
MotW is amazing. It is better than a power sword and isn't just restricted to being good against well armoured things. Volume of attacks kills hordes too. Something a power weapon cannot.
The pearl that is Wolf Standard. We all know that Templars are the best loyalist Marines in combat. 75% to hit makes them 50% better at killing stuff than other bp+cs equipped Marines.
Re-rolling 1's helps claw that back.
Templar v Orks. 30a
22.5 hit. 11.25 wound. 9.4 dead.
Wolf standard GH v Orks. 30a
17.5 hit. 10.2 wound. 8.5 dead
Without WS the GH kill 6.25.
With the WS, the GH become almost as killy as Crusaders. Very handy considering GH can shoot the daylights out of them as the cover the TT.
This is the second killer part. Only half of the GH die to how many Templars die, due to the re-rolling ones. So SW will have more dudes for next round too, again covering their inferiority in combat with more guys.
It is brilliant!
GH out shoot Templars. Then when the Templars get their, the superiority is stolen by the WS. The WS costs 10 pts. All you need is to save one GH or kill 2 boyz and it has paid for itself. Pure Gold!
On rune priests, over many many games it turns out I would rather 5 krak then 1rp. The 2+ to would vs demons is better then jaws really but he is generally not a game maker/changer like 5 krak can be.
Great discussion! I admit I know nothing about Wolves, so I was just trying to spark some chatter.
Excellent ideas all around.
The Rune Priest is different from the Long Fangs.
Whilst I think you need the Fangs more, I don't think you don't need the Priest.
The Priest can roll around in a Rhino or shoot from the backfield.
1] Living lightning is Auto cannon Equivalent [excellent anti Mech gun]
=2] Murderous Hurricane. Against MEq: Averages 10.5 hits. 3.5 wounds, 1.2 failed saves. But it is the ongoing effect that really hampers the unit. Moves at d6 and can lose men whilst moving. [A good way at slowing a dedicated Assault unit and/or stuff up an Nid horde ~ target the lead unit a enjoy the traffic jam]
=2] Jaws. The ability to snipe things is very powerful. It can "insta-kill" very powerful creatures. A 1/6 chance to do so is still *very* powerful if you think about it. That it can take out more than one thing a turn is good also. [powerful against Orks and Nids, and in high points games that have many models on the TT]
4] Tempest's Wrath is hyper-specific in targeting DSing units that land within 24" [excellent anti BA and Daemons]
Don't forget the Rune Priest provides some very good Psycic defense with his 4+ nullify from the rune staff. That can be a game winner vs certain armies.
I think as an all comers list you have to take something to shut down opposing psykers and considering that a Rune Priest also provides a quite respectable amount of damage dealing for the costs he is well worth having.
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