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Greetings, Battle Brothers. As you have read recently, JB is moving away from small Assault squads in lascannon Razorbacks in response to what he feels was a knee-jerk reaction to the cool new toys in the BA Codex. While I don't agree, I see his point. I also agree that it is probably time to go to infantry-based lists due to the massed Dark Lance-spam we are already seeing from DE players. I think people will get back into their rolling boxes eventually, but in the meantime, what sort of infantry-based lists seem useful from our Codex?
I was considering a few lists, and of course they're just theory at the moment. They'll be tested at some point (likely a 2K tournament in November), but in the meantime they are just Theoryhammering.
The core of what I wanted to run were full-sized Assault squads, with a melta and a power fist each. Each squad would also have a jump-packing Sanguinary Priest attached. Of course there's the option to add in a second melta, but I didn't want to jigger the list's points so much. In either 1850 or 2000 points I can run 4 or 5 of these units with plenty of points left over.
So, for 1850 points, I can run:
5 x Assault Squads
a Whirlwind with a storm bolter
2 x jump-packer Librarians
or take one Assault squad away and add:
2 x Baal Predators with heavy bolter sponsons and a storm bolter
In 2000 points, a list could be:
5 Assault squads
a Whirlwind with a storm bolter
Dante
a Librarian Dreadnought (or a jump-packer Librarian with 2 powers a turn)
This would be mostly against DE to have some vague chance to fight at the same time in close combat.
I could drop Dante for a las-las Predator and an autocannon-las Predator, both with extra armor. Again an Assault squad could go in favor of 2 dakka-Baals.
Why the Whirlwind? It will be good for killing massed DEs, and it can ignore cover saves. I realize most people don't like it, but I have always had good success with them pre-new Codex. They also force the enemy to kill them... while they're not the most effective weapon system, often players just have to kill them for some reason, much like they had to always kill my PDF-Codex Death Company even when there were only 2-3 of them in front of a Furioso. Of course, you may find a better use for 100 points. (2 attack bikes with multi-meltas?)
I appreciate the most recent list JB has put up on BoLS with the Vanguard squads' ability to assault after Deepstriking, but I am still unfortunately stuck on trying to put as many scoring units and models on the table. That is probably a big weakness, but I have no illusions about being a great general.
So, you all did a great job with the Wolves' list I was playing with (and I'll test a revised one very soon), so let's discuss these.
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12 comments:
I think the vanguard is more for the deep strikers really. Do you intend to start on or off the board?
Also I haven't seen much use of Devastators in lists posted. A unit with four rocket launchers could prove quite useful a la long fangs. Too imobile?
I have a weakness for jump packs so it would be nice to see more of them. Just wish that jump packs weren't so expensive on many units:/
FYI: I only have had experience playing BA at 1k. So definitely take what I say with a grain of salt.
Anyway, I have always found that if you are going to do a DoA/JP BA Army, it should generally all around be fully mobile. While some believe a fully infantry BA army is feasible, I think a nice mix of Mech and Infantry is perfection!
Anyway, I have had great success in my army running a mix of JP Ass Squads, Libbys, Sang Priests, and Furioso Dreads in Pods.
Generally speaking I have three Pods, two of which hold a furioso Dreads, one with a small assault squad. Generally I drop the dreads close to any heavy mech together. Two dreads in enemy lines is a great thing, that takes the fire off of the rest of the army as they charge forward. The third drop pod is a generally a last minute objective grabber, or a suicide squad to allow the rest of the army to move up. I have so far had pretty good success with my army, 4-1-0. The one draw was due to a objective game where I was too busy trying to table the opponent and forgot to grab the second objective.
Anyway, I believe infantry only armies are viable, but with some great mech units in our codex, how can we turn them down!
I think if you are only putting 1 or 2 vehicles in a list they will be completely ineffective. Every army is packing a serious amount of anti-tank stuff and your just making their target priority very simple. Shooting 10 Assault Marines with 2 Lascannon shots is a waste, so right away they go after the 2 boxes on the field.
I kind of think instead of completely abandoning the RAS MSU concept we should just rethink how to do it more effectively.
I dont think infantry is going to be the way to go against DE in all honesty. Keep in mind they are in open top transports that they can assault out of and their assault units will beat marines in combat.
Like Madmaverick76 said, and I have been saying since the new codex was released, I think the M+M army (Mech and Man) is going to prove the best build. With a mixture of mech and man you can drop your DSing JP's into their ranks, forcing them to use fire they may have used on your mech to deal with the more immediate threat, and this is only one way of running this style list. It's versatile and fast (assuming you leave the LR's at home, though maybe DSing one with your JP's could be fun), and you can fit quite a bit of each into a fairly balanced BA list with the new codex.
I like your builds when the Baals are added in, though I might try to find a way to get one Rhino'd or Razorback'd Assault squad in there to keep a scoring unit in some armour.
I'm really liking all this talk of searching out new and better builds to run the BA with, esspecially since I've never seen the Mech builds as really useful compared to the others possible.
I have found that a lot of lists are just lining up lasses and meltas. When I started running infantry, they just couldn't do much against me.
You know, what you lack in tactical genius is surely made up by army paintedness!
Running a bunch of marines is fun. Even anti-infantry armies still have trouble chewing through 50+ power armoured bodies. I think the trick is to focus your killiness into a few elite units and let your basic bodies stay that way. Basic.
After all, a basic marine, especially one with a jump pack, can be a real pain for just about any other unit in the game to deal with.
I like the idea of running a heavy infantry BA army. If you are going to go heavy infantry, then why not run an honor guard or a few priests? With all that infantry on the table, lets beef them up a little with furious charge and FnP. As for running multiple assault squads, I've been running three in most of my lists and usually it is one with jump packs, one in a rhino, and one in a drop pod. This can give you an awful lot of flexibility in your deployment options.
Flying tank
Deathdread
libby
deathco
Lemartes
3 sanguinary priests
3 full assault squads with packs, meltas, flamers, PWs/PFs.
Forget the lesser stuff. Go right to what it means to be a BA.
I'd suggest bikes, I'm making a list with 12 of them, and 30 JP marines
JB,
I was curious about something concerning your lists. I've been watching a lot of your videos and they have inspired me to actually play the game instead of just painting as I've been doing since I started the hobby at the beginning of the year.
You don't seem to use Sanguinary Guard and I find them to not only be beautiful models but on paper they seem deadly especially if you pair them up with Dante for the precision deep strike or a Librarian for Unleash rage not to mention putting them in range of a priest.
What's your opinion of the Guard in a BA List? I was planning on making them a centerpiece of my assault.
This list was actually posted by Doc Railgun, but no, I don't use SG. I think they cost a lot of points for 5 guys that may or may not survive the deep strike. I think an Honor Guard is a better buy competitively. Of course those are just opinions, I have never tried the SG in a game. I say give it a shot. Play what makes you happy, and make adjustments from there!
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