Peek a boo!
Ok, so, the models posed together are logically the same size right? They are both space marine models after all, and are probably on average the same height and stand about the same number of feet/inches/centimeters tall right?... Well, not so says 5th edition! The new Line of Sight rule means that if a target can be seen, it can be fired on. SOOOO, GW is saying a big fat screw you for modeling up your figures in action you crafty artists! Welcome to the new poop on you rule! Do you use nicely sculpted bases instead of our plain and boring standard bases??? Shame on you. Do you have the brashness of putting an assault marine on a post to simulate a landing jump pack warrior?? Well sorry sucker! Forget the idea that the pose is just a snap shot of time, and that model was captured in the act of landing. No wait, the rule book says that most people will have the sportsmanship in the spirit of the game so as not to punish players who take the time and effort to add some individualistic flair to their armies... WHERE ARE THESE PEOPLE??? I have yet to play a game where some guy has not fired a Lascannon shot at my Commander Dante who is taking cover behind a tank/tree/wall because he can "draw line of sight on his head". My explanations of "but wait, he is on a raised base to look cool, shouldn't you not fire on him in the spirit of good sportsmanship?" are met with dull stares and "well...the rule says I can shoot at his head and torso...so I can..." I have also gotten "His arm is actually considered part of his body." in reference to a model who I posed with his arm up above his head in a "the moment before he strikes." pose and Dante who comes with his arm outstreatched as high as his head...
Well Bah, I relent. I give up. In the spirit of fielding a Blood Angel's army that can actually compete, I have decided to make changes to my bases. Observe, the picture of the lonely death company model. He is on a boring GW base. His arms are close to his body and not above his head or extending out from the base. You win power gamers! You win.
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7 comments:
Sorry, I don't think I explained the issue well enough with the seething sarcasm. Here is a more to the point post. If you look at the pic of the Blood Angel and Grey Knight, the BAs head is 3/4 of an inch higher then the GK. In every 5th edition game I have played, I have attempted to hide my assault squad behind cover that blocks LoS to the squad, except for one model posed like this, and my opponent takes advantage of the fact that he can see his head. End result is the squad hiding behind a tank is wiped out from across the board because my opponent can see the head of that one guy. I will attach a pic of the squad behind a tank and you will see what I mean.
Don't do it... don;t change your models.
Don't relent to that mentality... if you don't hold people to the higher standard, who will?
All of my guys are raised at least a half inch because of their "cool" bases. Their arms reach up and out too.
It can be hard to do but stop playing those who are just there for the "win" and say things like, "Well, I CAN see the hair on the top of his head from here..."
Once people realize how you like to play, those types of players will gravitate towards you. There are people I have flat out told I will not play them because of their army why should it be any different for their playing style?
It's a game and more importantly, it's your time and you should spend it playing against people you enjoy gaming with.
Don't remove the bases, of course if you do then my Saim-Hann will now be more sexy then your Blood Angels in the modeling and conversion department. You 'angels command respect alone when the take the table on painting and conversion alone- don't drop any part of that- plus think ahead to the 2008 GT and next yeras Games Day.
Don't you dare remove the bases. They rule, and players who can't deal with that suck.
Anytime you're in the Los Angeles/Hollywood area, drop me a line. I don't play like that. Your Assault Marines will enjoy full cover standing behind terrain that would hide a normally modeled Space Marine.
Sweet, some day I will make it out there, and when I do, game on!
I don't know if you get notified of these - the post is like two months old - but I just wanted to point something out:
By the same token, your jump marine has LOS to other units, by a strict reading of the rules, since it's drawn from his head. I realise your assault marine almost certainly is carrying a bolt pistol so this is of limited utility, but that's specific to the rules on your army; the rules about LOS are generic to the entire game. If the rules allowed it, an Ork army could field Stormboyz with Big Shootas - 36 inch shots! Clearly it would be majorly relevant then.
The fact is, the new rules mean assault squads should try to be modeled as low to the ground as possible since they don't use LOS for anything, while shooty units should try for height to get LOS on their targets.
Your core point is entirely accurate; since the new rules use real LOS, modeling directly affects gameplay. Look at the rules on vehicle LOS for an incredibly clear indicator of this - vehicles draw LOS through their gun, but you draw LOS on them to their hull. This means a whirlwind tank has a drastic advantage over a vindicator tank in the LOS department - the whirlwind has guns that stick up, letting it shoot at things that may not be able to shoot back, while the vindicator can only shoot at things which can shoot back.
So - it's not the death of "creative" modeling, but it IS the death of "stylistic" modeling - you will be penalised for emphasizing coolness, but you are encouraged to model in a way that increases usefulness on the board (power gaming, to use your term), which can be quite creative.
Whether that's good or bad is subjective, of course, and it sounds to me like you might need some house rules to really enjoy the game. I just wanted to point out that rules like this go both ways. And don't forget - that assault marine clearly deserves at least a 4+ cover save for cover that thick, and if the squad takes casualties, so long as he dies first, your enemy should lose LOS to the squad.
Also, 5th edition Space Marines is out now. Check out Vanguard Veteran squads, they're the shiznit, especially in a Raven Guard army.
Nice comment Rick! Thanks. :) You make good points. I'm gona have to remove the post. Hell, even Fritz tried to shoot at that model in a friendly test game, when I was using it to proxy a Black Templar. I almost reached out across the table and slapped him! Hehe. He was fireing his vypers from the other side of terrain, and the only model he could draw LoS with was...yup..you guessed it... :)
I hadnt thought about the fact that some armies could benefit from this. I almost never even shoot their bolt pistols at all to avoid my opponent taking guys off that might leave me out of assault range. So to me it is crazy to think that I might be trying to take advantage. But it is a great point. I will keep the bases, but the pole has to go. It adds half an inch to him. I think the next assault army I make will have all the models using the Kneeling legs from the Dev squad. :)
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