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Here is a question I got asking for help on building an Ultramarines list.

my Ultramarine Army list problem
Hey Jawaballs,its suckthetyranidsdick8.

I have a problem with my army list.All the friends i have and they are intrested in WH40K are telling me that my list what i made isnt ok.So im asking what do you think about the list.here is the list:


Space Marine 1750 points Army list

HQ:
Captian Cato Sicarius=200 pts

Chapter Master Pedro Kantor=175 pts

Elites:
Techmarine & 4 servitors=90 pts
-2 servitors with heavy bolters........+40
Total=130 pts

Terminator squad=5 models=200 pts

Terminator squad=5 models=200 pts Replace storm bolter with assault cannon.........+30 pts
Total=230 pts

Sternguard veteran squad=5 models=125 pts
Sergeant-power fist &melta bombs=both=30 pts
1 Sternguard model-combi-flamer=5 pts Total=160 pts

Troops:
Tactical squad=9 marines and 1 sergeant=180 pts
1x flamer

Scout squad= 5 models (including Scout Sergeant Telion)=125 pts


Rhino=35 pts
Extra armour............+15
Total=50 pts


Fast attack:

Assault squad=5 models=100 pts
Sergeant:-Storm shield= 15 pts Total=130 pts
-Power weapon= 15 pts

Heavy support:

Tunderfire Cannon=100 pts
Techmarine=50 pts
-power weapon.....+15 pts

Total=100 pts

Total=1750 pts

Jawaballs Answers:

When I make an army list for some one, I lean them in two major directions. 5th edition has rendered the game down to Torrent of Fire, and mobile troops. I let them keep their commanders since they have chosen them and want to play them. But I try to modify the rest of their list to be more competitive. So Here is what you need to do.

Drop the Techmarine and servitors, and drop the Thunderfire Cannon and Techmarine. Yes, I understand that they are cool, but really shouldnt be used in a 1750 point game because for the points, they dont pack the punch you need. I would save them for appocalypse. The Thunderfire is a gimmick at best. Dont take it at all.

Replace them with Predator tanks, auto cannons, heavy bolters, storm bolters, extra armor. At least 2, 3 is better.

Drop the assault squad. Buy a couple of speeders with Typhoon missle and melta guns.

Get a Land Raider, put your commanders and a terminator squad with storm shields in it.

Keep your other terms if you like, deep strike or march them... get that assault cannon shooting. If you can add a missle launcher too, do so.

Sternguard are ok. Put them in a rhino. I think they are scoring with your commander right?

If you are using scouts, get Tellion.

Get more tacticals put them in rhinos.

Keep one ten man tactical with a Lascannon back to place on an objective on your side of the board.

What you want is a fast moving army in rhinos, supported with Predator tanks using Torrent of Fire... as many shots as possible. Ram your Land Raider Crusader down their throats, unload and kill every thing you can. Support them with your Sternguard. Go claim objecvtives with your rhino. Shoot every thing that moves with the preds. Speeders can sit back and shoot their missles, or support your assault with their melta guns.

Take your time, count up your points, and post here your progress!

Enjoy. Jawaballs

8 comments:

AoM said...

That's 4 Elites. No good, either way. Pedro makes the SG scoring, but that doesn't make them a Troops choice.

Of course, dropping the Techmarine + Servitors fixes that.

Don said...

You forgot the best unit in the game (imho). A drop pod dreadnought with multi melta and heavy flamer. Drop the other two characters and run Vulkan (twin linked flamers/meltas), make your terminators assault w./ thunder hammers (master crafted with vulkan). Run all meltas/flamers w./ tactical squads & combi weapons (of course, meltas) in rhinos. Pop the top, fire off the meltas on any heavys that survive the twin linked multi melta dread in drop pod.

Brother Sgt James said...

youre right about the thunderfire cannon it sucks. if youre not going to use more stern guard thare could be better otpions they are expensive but only good in lsrger groopd like 7- 10 and exploit the fact that you can take 2 special weapons like two melta guns in a squad of any size. as for vulcan hestan he is probly the most efficant specal char to take but then every one is taking him. and i do not like Cato Sicarius he is to expensive for what he does, you would be better of taking a chaplin like Cassius with youre termies to get the re-rolls when you charge out of youre land raider.

Docrailgun said...

I'm all for outflanking Landraider spam if I'm using the new Codex rather than the BA one.

Khan and 7 Assault Terminators (2 lighting Claw terminators and 5 TH+SS terminators) in a Crusader

a full Tactical squad with 10 points of your choice of weapons (flamer+ plasma cannon, melta+ multimelta, lascannon only, etc.) in a regular LR

a full Tactical squad as above in a Crusader

a Vindicator w/ siege shield (to move freely through and hide in cover)

a Venerable dreadnought w/ 2 TL autocannons. This thing causes about 4 wounds a turn against most anything.

Of course, dropping the last two units will get you an extra LR, but I want to have more chances to stop those pesky Russes we'll see soon.

Jacob Bodmer said...

@ AoM:
That was my second thought reading over his initial list. My First was "OH GOD NO DON'T TAKE SICARUS!"

@Don:
Ironclad>MMdread. armor 13 is a huge help, free extra armor is nice, and the seismic hammer is great. Dropping a IronClad in pod on turn 1 forces your opponent to deal with it *Now* or suffer the consequences. Might as well make it something more difficult to deal with.

@Docrailgun:
TBH, all out-flank armies are totally hit-or-miss, you must pray for deliverance from the dice gods. The main problem with Outflank is:

1.) You need good reserve rolls. This alone is enough to cause you to lose games. The new guard, wherein everyone will be spamming "officers of the fleet" will make this much, much worse.

2.) You only come in where you wan to 2/3 of the time. So even if you get all 3 of your LRs in on turn 2, you'll only get 2 where you need them (Again, made far, far worse by officers of the fleet)

3.) where you want your LRs puts them in prime melta range. GLHF getting to use those things for more than a turn or so.

4.) Tactical squads, without any buffs, are garbage in h2h. Sure, they'll beat guardsmen, and tau, and other tac squads, but that's about it.

Alright, as for the original smurf list:

1) When it comes to special characters, and HQ in general, SMurfs are expensive, so get the most for your money! Some choices (Cassius, Vulkan, Pedro) are simply mathematically superior to others (Sicarus, Tigerus, Shrike) Either because they give better "buffs" have better gear, or both.
If you absolutley, need to take 2, make one a discount-hq, say, A naked Chaplin. or Cassius (The dura-chappy)

2.) Pedro isn't an Ultramarine. But I'm sure you knew that.

3.) Never have a naked tactical-terminator squad. At least put a 5pt heavy flamer in there.

4.) Techmarines + servator squads are garbage.

5.) The sternguard squad is too small, and to slow, to have any meaningful contribution to the game.

6.) Always give your Tac squad a free heavy weapon. Even if you don't get to use it b/c of movement, you'll only miss out on 1 bolter shot. big deal. Totally worth having in case you need that extra missile/MMelta/HeavyBolter.

7.) Assault squads are not worth it if taken under 10 models. even then, it's questionable.

8.) Thunderfire cannon isn't worth taking at games > 1000 pts. Unless you're doing a joke list.

9) You NEED more troops. No joke. They're a necessity. You also NEED to keep them ALIVE, and MOBILE. Standing tac squads die. Dead troops don't hold objectives.

As for lists, I would suggest:
Cassius 125
Pedro 175
Riding with
5 SS=TH Terminators 200
in a Land Raider Redeemer
with Meltagun, and Extra Armor 275
(You can use a LRC if you prefer, but the ap3 templates work wonders for getting MEQ off of objectives on cover. You'll be amazed how much people fear them)
That one little basket is just shy of HALF of your points in a 1750 game. Use it CAREFULLY young grasshopper! Don't be afraid to smoke. If you come against a tau rail-gun line, You will lose. You need that land raider to live and be mobile until turn 2. After that, it doesn't matter as much b/c your terms are eating stuff.

3 AC+HBS+SB+EA Preds. 110pts each (330 total) They dakkadakkadakka.

2 squads of 10 tac marines in rhinos with Pfists and 10pts of misc upgrade (Meltagun+PlasmaCannon suggested)

Squad of 6 scouts with cloaks+ Telion upgrade + ML or HB to taste.

That takes you to 1750. yeehaw.

A friend runs:
Vulkan w/ 5THSS terms in a LRR
another LRR
Droppodding Iron Clad w/ meltaHflamer
3 tac squads w/ Meltas, Plasmacannons in 3 razorbacks.

This list works well because on turn 1, a LOT of firepower goes into downing that IronClad (who messes stuff up should he live) Which gives the two LRs time to advance. One LR is difficult to kill outside of melta range. Two is darn near impossible.

I, personally, run:
Term chap w/ 5 ass terms in LRR
3x Tac squads in 3 Razors
3 vindicators.

The Vindis pull a stupid-amount of fire-power off of the LRR, letting it roll-up the table almost unmolested.

I've also got a bike-list I play around with from time to time. Which, TBH, actually does *Better* than my LRVindi list. Meh, it's not about being "good" It's about being a fluffy Imperial Fists list.

jawaballs said...

Holy Response jacob! That is what I like to see.

Jacob Bodmer said...

@Jawa:
Yeah, I've been playing marines, lots of marines, since 3rd edition.

Codex, Space Wolves, BA, DA, LotD, Chaos of many flavors, various IA and White Dwarf marine lists, etc etc. Haven't touched Black Templars though...

I'm a tad disillusioned with the triple-vindi. They just don't *Do* anything. I've had games where all three's net contribution is to immobilize a single rhino... Yet somehow they make people piss themselves, I guess they're all just remembering the days of 4th when a vindi meant something.

The Bike list is *really* fun, but totally gimmicky. It basically relies on my foe screwing up to win, but it gives them so many opportunities to do so, that even good players seem to make mistakes against it.

I have too much free time.
I should spend it painting though.
Bartertown is my kryptonite. =/
Or maybe passing my college classes, that could also be a worthy use of my time.

Docrailgun said...

Jacob,
I have no problem with where my LRs come in, or Tac squads with no power fists... as they will never purposefully get out of their vehicles. LR spam is all about parking LRs on objectives and daring the enemy to hit AV14.

If I want to play a 4th edition-style list, I'll play my BAs or a Salamander list I have.

I agree that the new Guard characters will be a problem, but that's the way the monkey crumbles.

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