Posted by Jawaballs at 8:53 AM
In a recent game against a good player and very nice guy, I encountered an issue with cover saves. I thought I would open it up to discussion here. No offense to you big C. I just wanted to get some input!
Here is the situation. For most of the game, my opponent was shooting at my tanks from across the board, over terrain and whatnot. Every time I asked him if the stuff in between granted cover saves, his answer was no after getting down and looking down the gun sights. No problem, game on! Then he started putting his speeders directly in front of his tanks, in between my tanks and his. Now, a speeder is just about the same hight as the turret on a predator. Again, my requests for cover saves were denied. Finally, one of the shots was so questionable that I went around the table and looked for myself and sure enough... in my opinion, over 50% of the facing of my tank was obscured by the speeder. Looking down the top of the barrel, you could see just over the bottom of the smoke stacks on my predator. He claimed that he could see more then 50, argument ensues, he gets down and directs me to look down the side of the barrell, not the top, that will give me more of the target etc. Blah blah.
Sure, it was close. Short of getting a digital photograph from the barrel of the auto cannon and using a computer to give a definitive answer as to just how much of the tank is visible, there was no real way to answer it. It was that close, and when I play, I would always grant the cover save. But my opponent still refused, at which point I got angry, told another guy to get lost who was throwing in his unrequested two cents (sorry Burt), then out of frustration invoked the rule where if it is unclear whether or not the model is 50% obscured then it is a 5+ save. My opponent continued to disagree even with that, and I rolled a 3 so it mattered not what so ever.
What is the big deal? This is just an example of things we always encounter in 40k. After the call in question, I realized he had been doing it all game with las cannon razorbacks across the table. The first 4 or 5 shots I just shrugged off, the next was at a tank that was almost entirely behind a ruined building, then this speeder incident. It seemed his denial of cover saves was part of his strategy, as was his shooting under his speeders with well practiced angles. It does not matter in pickup casual games which is what this game was, but in tournaments, if it seems a little wonky, it probably is. It is good sportsmanship to take his word for it, but at what point do you get fed up and go have a look for yourself? And am I a poor sport for flatly disagreeing with him and invoking the 5+ save rule? I know that rule encourages guys to always argue a cover save, therefore always getting a 5+ even if it is not even close at all... How do you guys play cover saves? Do you grant them easily or are they something only granted if 50% can be proven with a laser caliper.
On another note, I wanted to commend my opponent on doing something I have never seen before! He had 11 or 12 small base models inside a Land raider crusader. The gun sponsons were on the front facing doors, leaving the back doors available to disembark, as well as the front ramp. In front of the left door I had a terminator in close combat with a couple of models, blocking that one. On the right door was a tank eating up a lot of room, and there was lots of space in the front, which happened to be in assault range for my thunderhammer death squad. I popped the land raider with Blood Lance, forcing the models inside to disembark, and I chuckled to myself as he was going to have to get them out right into the jaws of my blood hungry terminators. Oh was I wrong! Using the 2" deployment from the back doors of the LR, he managed to get almost every model behind the damn thing! It was a tight fit, but he managed to deply them all out of the reach of my assault squad by measuring that 2" over the back of the land raider as the crow flies. I thought it was funny and was not in the mood to debate, so after looking at the distances congratulated him. He then assaulted my terminators with that squad and wiped them out on his turn. It was a bunch of space wolf close combat dudes with an couple of special characters. I didnt stand a chance getting charged! :)
Now the question. Since my model was directly in front of that side door, was he allowed to disembark out of it at all since he would have been passing within an inch of my model in order to do so? I didnt bother bringing up the question then because my head was already spinning from the cover save debate. He was able to place models 2" away from it (behind the land raider), and keep them 1" away from mine, but could those models go out through that door at all? It is something I will certainly employ with my own land raider if the need ever arises!
A couple of other things I realized during this game. No, sanguinary priests do NOT have two wounds. For some reason I have been playing them with two since the new codex came out... maybe that is because Corbulo has two or something? Also, I got myself confused with movement. I was mistakenly, and temporarily I might add under the impression that when moving a squad in the movement phase you had to move them all in coherency, so after each model moves it has to be within 2" of another that has already moved. (this is the case with assault by the way) The answer to the question is no, you can move two models in a squad so that they are 10" apart and so long as at the end of moving, you have chained the rest of the squad between them, you are fine.
Why was I confused? Honestly it has been so long since I actually moved a squad that was not assaulting that I mixed up the rules! It is funny how we absolutely know a rule, but still mess it up. :)
The game itself was very enjoyable. It came down to turn 6 and he tank shocked onto my base objective, denying mine and controlling his. Half way through the game I realized I was not going to be able to contest his objective, so switched to defensive mode and took down all but one of his tanks and speeders that could threaten me... and of course it got in. I failed to pop it with my meltagun, so had to assault it with 10 marines and a priest and no fist. It moved 12" so I needed 6s to hit it, got just three out of 35 attacks or so, and of those few, only one managed to hurt with a penetration roll of 6 because of my furious charge. I needed a 5 or 6 to destroy the tank! And the dice gods smiled upon me with a 5! Great stuff. A hard fought draw.
More to come.