I just dont know. I am currently using my vindicator with Storm Bolter in my list for 130 points. For 125 points I can buy a Speeder with Multi Melta and Heavy Flamer, and Attack bike with Multi Melta, then add a flamer to my Honor Guard.
Vindicator Pros: Str 10 blast. That gun is awesome, with the new scatter rules very accurate, and it forces people to deploy in ways they might not want to. I can roll it up into cover, and blast away to defend held objectives, or knock out transports.
Vindicator Cons: It is just one model and glances can essentially eliminate it from the fight. A lucky str 7 shot at its front armor can take out the gun. In every game I play, it is usually the first thing taken out, and usually pretty quickly.
Land Speeder: In using my Templar landspeeder, I have fallen in love with them! Its multi-melta means it can take out ANY armor from 36 inches away. If it gets within a foot and hits, it is almost a guaranteed pen. The heavy flamer is death. Only marines get saves against it, and it wounds most models on 3s I think. It works best when you jump it up on a disembarked squad, target the transport, pop it with the meltagun and hopefully explode it while washing the flame over the squad for good measure. Finally, I can give it a Typhoon Missle laucher as well as the flamer and MM. Just saw that. Str 5 AP 5 small blast twin linked. 48" range. This means it can move 12 and fire ALL three weapons. Its a killing machine!
Attack Bike: Super Fast, toughness 5, 2 wounds, Multi Melta and twin linked bolter, cover save when moving fast! Plus it is small and able to hide behind cover... This thing can zoom up and pop out to knock out tanks.
Simply typing this up has pretty much decided this for me. I must go with the Fast Attack choices. Given all that, PLUS they can zoom across the board at the end of the game and contest objectives... I believe this weekend will be the last appearence of my Vindicator... :( This change will simply make my army stronger!
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9 comments:
I just looked up the rules and I believe I am mistaken. It can only move 6 inches and fire all of its guns. Any input?
Yeah, 6 inches and all its weapons, or 12" and one weapon.
That's still 36" with the multi-melta.
My BA have had success with land speeders and (especially) attack bikes... I wish BT attack bikes were only 50 points (with a free multi-melta) like BA ones are. I've always wanted to use a Vindicator, but I don't have the model... none of the Marine players I've asked recently have said that Vindicators they've used have been worth much. They tend to die first and they rarely get to fire. Mostly what I would want them for is blowing up buildings, but I can do that with a multi-melta or lascannon... detroying buildings is exactly like popping tanks.
I think your BT advice is sound here too... a Vindicator can be killed by a lucky shot and is vulnerable in close combat. 2 attack bikes is 4 wounds, 2 heavy weapons, and 2 twin-linked bolters. Also, the Vindicator's gun has a limited fire arc, so once an enemy unit gets past that siege shield, it's pretty much over. Nobz in an AV 14 Battlewagon will take their chances rushing a Vindicator.
This is a tough call, your vindicator is way sexy and that alone is a reason to keep it, plus peeps are afraid of the cannon, but it is going to get targeted and can be taken out or weapon destroyed by a lucky shot- happened vs. 'nids in your last game.
Attack bikes are anti-armor only which you seem to have covered with the las squads and Dante fusion pistol, speeders can be anti-tank or anti-infantry wich is nice, or course AV 10 sucks but there are ways around it if you are in the know- look how well I've done with my Saim-Hann vypers and they are AV 10 open topped!
I would re-tool and try to get 2-3speeders in the list which gives you some protection if one goes down from a lucky shot or if you screw up.
I thought about 2 speeders, but I really dont have any points to play with. I get 130 from dropping the Vindi, and I have 5 points spent on Meltaboms I an spare. So I got 135 points. Speeder with Flamer is 75. That leaves me with 60 points. Not enough for a speeder without flamer... which if I were to take, I might as well only take the Attack Bike. So Speeder at 75 and Bike at 50 leaves me with spending 125 points, and I can keep the meltabomb on my Vet Sgt in the RAS and put the flamer with the Honor Guard. Of course, I could take the bike with a Heavy Bolter... But how great would it be to roll a 50 point model up on a landraider filled with terminators, pop it, then be able to shoot them up with my 3 plasma cannons?? :) The thing is that the bike is just a single bike. People dont see them often and will ignore them. Experienced players will know about the multi melta, but what are they gona target first... the Death Company charging down their throats... or the little bike zooming up the side. By round two that thing should still be alive, and popping tanks. If they do fire shots at it... GOOD! Less shots going at my Furiosos and assault troops, which are the real strength of my army. It is also one more melta shot to be used against Hive Tyrants and their ilk. Frankly, when up against those big bug armies, you can never have enough... :)
Much as I love the Vindies, I'm going to have to vote for the Speeder and Bike. They're much more annoying. I've really found that a lone Vindie is too easy to Shake. Losing PotMS is making them less effective too. Really the only way I've been impressed with them is as a line of 3. For the cost of that I'd rather take several Predators.
Deciding between using Vindi's, Speeders and Attack bikes depends entirely on the makeup and tactics of the rest of your army. A Vindicator is an assault tank designed to drive right into the enemy, with support from others tanks and assault infantry. Sure it might get popped on route but that means the rest of your tanks and Rhinos probably made it. And when you use a line formation of them those overlapping templates will massacre anything under them, termies, nobs, horde armies etc.
I currently use 2 Vindis with Demonic Possession and a Defiler in my Chaos assault army of 1500 points, with all troops in Rhino's with Havoc launchers, sure I generally lose a Vindi or 2 on the approach despite my 4+ cover save from smoke and flanking Rhinos, but by then my troops are out of the Rhinos, the Defiler and the other Vindi have layed down their templates and CC is about to begin.
If you use them for assault they are a great tank, but if you plan to sit still with them, you are probably better off with another long range tank or faster units such as speeders and attack bikes. This is the great thing about this game, variety of choices, tactics and cool models all around. :)
firstly, the range on the multimelta is 24" not 36"
As to the vindicator dilemna, I would and do take both. The speeder gives you some much needed fast moving anti-tank at range, and its cheap.
The vindicator however is harder to use. If you dont get ur tactics right it will be destroyed very quickly before it has had a chance to do much. However if you use it right, it can do no end of damage. Being only 125 pts it can make up its points very quickly, often with one shot. i took out 4 GK termies with a grand master with one shot which nearly trebled the vindicators points. Plus the front AV 13 is hard as nails. WATCH OUT 4 AUTOCANNONS!!
Also if the enemy is shooting at ur vindicator, hes not shooting at the rhinos and dreads which can close quickly under no preasure and kick ass!
I think you missed my point. I did not say a Multi Melta could fire 36 inches. I said it could take out armor from 36" away. OF COURSE it would have to move its 12" first, then fire. I was commenting on the fact that it has a 36" threat range, which is something that people do not normally think about when considering the benefits of weapons. How far can a vehicle move, and still fire it's gun... Thanks for correcting me like a noob though.
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