Battle Report: Blood Angels vs Chaos Undivided double Lash

Last night I had the pleasure of playing Black Matt's tournament list. We both knew that this was going to be a tough game with nothing less then our very souls on the line! Matt has been playing 40k a long time, and on top of being the best painter I know, is wiley with the rules and tactics. Very little slips by him and really, his only fault is that he is a bit of a rule stickler when it suits him. Though that can be a strength in tournaments! For example Line of Sight. If I intend to shoot any of his models, I better have a laser pointer because he will NOT grant that I have LoS if there is any question to it. He is going to make you fight for every kill, rest assured.

Having said that, I need to admit that I have a bad habit of flaming my opponent if things don't go my way and I want to say that like James (see Ba vs Ultramarines), Matt is a friend. It takes a man to admit he has been bested and I sometimes make excuses. So, I am not flaming him or making excuses, please don't mistake this as such. I also have my own faults that might cause issues in games. I tend to be a little loosey goosey with my measurements. On occasion I may move a model too far here and there. But just as often, I will short myself so I feel there is balance. I suppose like any player, I tend to use rules when they suit me, and argue that same rule when used against me. I also have a habit of being hard edged in my arguments, which comes off as abrasive. I suppose this can lead to me coming off as a little unapproachable and uncompromising. A bad trait when a LOT of 40k is based on rules that are subject to interpretation at best. I will say though, that so long as my opponent is cool with me, I wont nit pick him. But once he sets that tone and "stickles" me, I can be pretty good and redundant at returning the favor. Not really a great trait.

Now for the batrep.

1750 Blood Angels vs Chaos Undivided double sorcerer with lash list. He has 4 squads of Plague marines in Rhinos, 2 sorcerers attached to squads, and 3 squads of two oblits. The list is Cheeze! But it is a highly competitive tournament list. I respect it.

Mission: Kill Points
Deployment: 12" table edge.

I won the die roll to go first, and elected to take that first turn, and deploy. The cover on one edge was highly suited to this game because the other edge had little cover in the deployment zone. I wanted coice of edge. Plus I wanted to try to pop a rhino turn one. Knowing how Matt plays, and how this mission goes, I knew it was going to be a slug fest, but I also knew he had a big advantage. Those 6 Obliterators can use any weapon they want, so that is 6 lascannons if he chooses. In a game where we both have a lot of Rhinos, that is a tactical advantage for him. If we both decide to sit back and shoot, he wins. I have 1 lascannon to his 6. So I had to press the advance with my Baal Preds, knock out his Oblits, get the edge in kill points, then fall back.

Of course, he won the Seize the Initiative roll... an ominous beginning.

I deploy, clustering my units in the right corner of my edge. One thing about massed firepower is that you have to keep it all together to get any thing out of it. He matched my cluster, by doing the same in the opposite corner. He did place an oblit squad on the edge across from me though. I would have to kill that one first.

Turn 1:
On his moving he put his Oblits in the far corner into position. Game Note: in these terrain pieces, we were treating them as multi-leveled structures. So, you have to be able to move at least 3" to go up a level. Matt had his Oblits behind cover. He rolled the terrain test, then moved his models the full distance up and over of that measurement, without taking into consideration that 3 of those inches had to be used getting up to the second level. (he was trying to get his oblits to the edge of the terrain to not have to grant me a cover save for shooting through it, which was wise) I didn't say any thing because that is the sort of thing that is not worth creating animosity over...

He does some shooting, but fails to hurt any thing due to cover saves etc. We also have a short discussion about why my vehicles were not granted cover saves despite the fact that he could see less then 50% of them. I didn't understand the rule, but for the sake of playing the game, just accepted it. I will have to read that after...

On my moving, I push up. I angle my tanks for shots at his well hidden Oblits, and move the tanks with no shots as far as I can. One of those tanks had to navigate through terrain pieces. Matt objected to that tanks movement, and requested that I make a terrain test, or remeasure it. Then being unhappy with my remeasure, he came over and measured it himself. Basicly, the tank had to move forward, rotate left, move forward, rotate right, move forward. The end result was that I moved my tank a little too far... about half an inch. Matt gained half an inch... (Or I lost it, but I am looking at the optimist side here. :) But more importantly, I want to point out that Matt flipped the "stickler switch" to ON after I ignored his breach of movement with his Oblits. The rest of the game would come down to exact measurements for sure.

In my shooting, I had a huge stroke of luck, and got a shot at one of his Rhinos with my Lascannon. From the angle, I could just manage to see about 52% of the vehicles facing side. No cover save for YOU! I hit, and EXPLODE the rhino. It had one of the Sorcerers in it and he was now going to be on foot.

End turn One, 1 kp for me 0 for Matt.

Turn Two:
Matt does some moving to get good angles and cover saves. He is a master at escaping line of sight while still being able to shoot at what he wants. He ran the sorcerer back to another rhino. (I dont remember if it was this turn or turn 3, but it doesnt matter)

Here is a question I pose to the reader. He ran his sorcerer to within 2" of an access port of a rhino containing a squad, then embarked the sorcerer into that rhino. Glancing at my recently "stickled" tank, I suggest that by the rules, he would need to disembark that squad in order for the sorcerer to join it. The rules state that a transport may only hold one squad. It also states that an IC needs to finish its movement within 2" of a unit in order to join it. At the end of his movement, he was within 2" of a rhino, not an infantry squad. At the end of his movement phase, that IC was still just a single unit. He was not joined to any squad. He cannot join a rhino. Trying to embark that rhino means that for that moment, 2 units were trying to use it. I suggest that based on the rules for a transports carrying capacity, he would need to disembark the squad in order for the IC to join the squad, then next turn, the now single unit may get back into the rhino and be on their way! I know, I was being silly. Logic dictates that there was no reason why that sorcerer could not just open the back door to a rhino and hop in, thus joining a squad. But hey, I'm not the one who set the "Stickle Switch" to ON. Matt aggressively objected, flat out refusing to comply with that rule or entertain the discussion. Without really intending to try to enforce that silliness, I carry on with the rules lawyering for a bit, then let the matter die. I was just trying to make a point that it sucks to play a rules lawyer. Had he not pushed the issue with my tank, I would have not said a word.

But the question remains! How should that have been resolved? If an independent character wishes to get into a rhino that is occupied by a squad, does that squad need to disembark in order to let him join them? Or can he just hop in? Him entering the rhino is basicly like two squads trying to enter a rhino that can only hold one... Input?

So, on with the game. Phew! On his shooting, he still fails to do any real damage. He did knock a gun off a Baal and hurt my speeder though, it would have to retreat next turn. Luck it seems is still shining upon me.

Bottom of Two:
I charge forward. I now have my Baal Preds in range to do some damage, and am setting up his lone Oblit squad for a turn 3 assault. It becomes obvious that he is going to lose that squad for sure. I surround it with juicy units and force him to make a choice about what to shoot. In my shooting, I manage to kill another Oblit. (again, may have been turn 3 but it doesnt really matter) I would spend the rest of the game trying to get that survivor.

End of turn two: I have 1 KP, matt has 0

Turn Three:
This is a big turn. Matt does some more jostling for cover saves and shots. He attempts to move a squad of Plage Marines up on top of a structure... He rolled a 5 I believe for movement and proceeds to put his models 5" away from where they were, but on top of the structure... "Stickle Switch ON" At this point, I bring up the fact that he needs to take into consideration that to get up consumes 3" of his movement, so he would have to push some of those models back... See how that works?? :) Being distracted, he put one of the squads melta guns in the back by accident, just thought I would note that here.

On his shooting, he finally manages to knock out a rhino and earns his first KP in perhaps his first mistake, tries to get the juicy shot at Dante rather then going for the sure kill point by shooting then assaulting a Rhino. Dante was definitely out of range for the assault. He hit and wounded with two melta guns, but Dante made his Invul saves! Sweet!

Bottom of three:
I set up for assault on his lone oblits. I move Dante, Corbs and the DC into range, joining Dante to the squad. I also attempt to move two tanks through terrain, and roll 1 for both... imobilizing them. This was bad because one of them was VERY close to his melta guns. Drat. I would no longer be able to move it back, and would have to play a defensive game from a horrible tactical position... I do some shooting, trying to kill that oblit, but fail to hurt any thing. Then I charged the lone oblits with Dante, and he kills them both. I consolidate the squad in cover.

End of Three: 2KP for me, 1KP for Matt

Top of Four:
Matt moves up a flanking rhino and unloads them. They manage to get a sneaky LoS at my speeder through a building, and he knocks it out. He also tried to fire his two melta guns in the squad that tried to move up on the building last turn. He realized that one of his melta guns was out of position... Seeing that it was an accident, I agree that he can move it to where he wanted it... See Matt, I'm not a dick despite you calling me that! (Matt got angry with me a little earlier because I "Stickled" him on rhino movement and disembarking in order to lash... no need to get into it.)

On my turn, I advance my Baals a bit more, trying to kill that last Oblit again, and knock out some Rhinos... but I would fail to do any thing. I start to see that if this game does not end on turn 5, I am going to lose. I did manage to Imobilize and Weapon Destroy a rhino. All I would need to do is scratch it next turn for a KP.

End Turn Four: 2KP for me, 2KP for Matt. This is turning into a tight, fun game!

Turn Five:
Now the game has sort of rendered down to a match between my 3 Baal Preds and lascanon, and his Oblits and Melta Guns. Sadly, he has the advantage here. He moved his Meltas into range but failed to hurt me. I see now that if the game does not end on turn 5, it is over for me. I will not survive another round of shooting.

I accept fate, and expose my tanks. I move them into range for maximum fire power and unload on him. His fleeing Oblit took a lot of shots, but did not die! I also failed to hurt his Rhinos... that would seal it for me. Turn 5 ends, with each of us having 2kp. I roll the die to end the game hoping for a draw... but roll a 5. Game goes on.

Turn Six:
The short of it is that he stunned my remaining tanks, and killed one. I attempted to tank shock so I could maybe Ram a rhino, and he successfully Death or Gloried. I know, desperation... Basicly, I had to Ram and destroy a rhino, and destroy the other with my lascannon. But it was not to be. Game ends with Matt claiming victory! This time. Dante and Corbulo lead a fighting withdraw and the score will be settled...

So there you go, I posted a loss! A lot of guys on youtube complain that all I post are wins... here is proof! But thats ok, it was a close game and Matt has a tough list. I am not ashamed of that loss. Great tactical game man! But I do have to say that there was an issue that did leave a very sour taint in my mouth. Rule Stickling is part of the game and I can deal with that, it is even fun sometimes... But there was something else about the game that disappointed me. I think Matt realized after what it was and was remorseful. He gets super emotional and a bit caught up in the moment some times. Just remember man, while I might inadvertantly move a model farther then I should on occasion, and try to squeak out LoS where there might be none, I am not going to cheat or lie to you dude and I feel very strongly about my word...

Ok, I will post the vid asap. JB.



eriochrome said...

Good to see that you are mortal. I think that as long as he was within 2 inches of a rhino entry point at the end of the movement phase (using run to describe movement and not a run action) he can get aboard and auto join the unit.

The change in the building rules make moving through levels of buildings a really slow prospect. That is why I like to place my deployment zone objective in second or third floors of buildings. Helps with tank shocks also.

Docrailgun said...

p. 67 (Under "Independent characters embarking or disembarking") says "If either an independent character or a unit is already in a vehicle, the other may join them by embarking too (assuming, of course, that there is enough space left.)" It goes on to say that they can disembark as two (or more) units if they like.

So, unless there wasn't any more room in the Rhino, the sorcerer could embark.

jawaballs said...

Cool Doc thanks for that!

CJ said...

Nice battle report Jawa even though you lost it was a cool game to follow. To bad maat is such a rules jockey butt I guess it has it's advantages. (wondering how Fritz dealt with the Jetbike base size against him, and fortune turboboost combo)

But good to see you know how to bite back, by the way are we going to be treated with your last game from the Grims tournament anytime soon? still curious how you finished up the tournament.

Cheers CJ

jawaballs said...

I wouldnt call him a rules jockey in a negative way. He plays to win, and in order to win tournaments, you NEED to do that. I myself should tighten up my game and be a little less giving... Guys at tournaments will take every thing you give them, and give back nothing. If any thing, Matt should be a model for keeping some of those power gamers in line. And yes, I have the video ready to upload, I just have to remember to do it when I get home. Plus I had some other videos I had to let have the top spot in my channel for a while. I dont know about Fritz's fortune bit, but I know that he says the bases are the ones that came with his jetbikes. So, no one can argue him using him.

eriochrome said...

The Turboboosting/fortune bit is that turboboosting is supposed to be the only action for the unit for the entire turn. That appears to be how the rule is intended. It says the unit can do no voluntry action for the turn then lists some examples.

The problem is that you can use fortune or doom etc before you move and since generally rules are not retroactive people claim you can still turboboost since you have already done the pyschic action and the rule does not specifically forbid it.

jawaballs said...

Ahh, I get it, but as I understand it, some psychic powers are used before Moving. They sort of have their own little "quazi" time. And turbo boost means that you can do nothing else after you do it? So you could not TB and use a power that is supposed to be used in the shooting phase.

Re-rolling those failed saves wont do him much good when three Baal Predators lay into him. I am drooling for the chance to get him on the table and bitch slap his Farseer prostitute. Maybe I will keep her alive and let her make a living doing my dishes. :)

eriochrome said...

The rule says very specifically no "voluntary actions in the same turn". The psyhic powers are certainly voluntary and taking place during your turn. I would guess people would do them after reserve deployment so that the farseer coming in on reserve can still do them.

It falls into a similar gray area as the Waagh rule were some people claim they can run their units then Waagh if the run rolls got them to assault range and avoid the downside of the 1 roll.

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