Brothers Grim Warhamme 40k Tournament: Game 2

This game had an interesting twist. There were 6 objectives, we each placed 3. The catch was that in order to claim them, you had to have an infantry squad base to base. Once doing so, there was a random chart to see what was "Inside" the box. Bonus points were awarded for capturing the most boxes, killing commanders, etc. But this game was marred by a couple of... issues.

Deployment: table corners
Mission: Loot Counters

I was playing a Space Wolf army and the deployment ended up with 4 of the 6 counters near his corner. Drat. He would end up claiming all 4.

To cut to the meat of this game, I will quickly summarise.

Turn 1: My opponent claims 2 objectives, I claim 1. His two objectives turned out empty, mine was a real marker. I ended turn 1 holding 1 objective to his 0.

Turn 2: Dante moves up, and assaults a large squad with a Wolf Librarian in it. Dante is killed. He had Logan something attached to a squad with bolters. They moved up to secure the center of the table. My opponent captured two more objectives, I captured one. His turned out to be empty, mine was a real marker. End turn two, I control 2, he controls 0.

Turn 3: Realizing that his only hope to salvage the game, my opponent had to try to move Logan and his squad about 20 inches, assault a squad, claim the objective, then move another 12 inches, assault another squad, and claim that one. I assault and kill his librarian with Corbs and the Furioso, and consolidate into cover.

Turn 4: Here is where the world goes to shit. My opponent moves Logan's squad 6 and shoots at my Furioso who was about to pounce on them. The furioso is killed by Lascannon fire. On my turn, I tank shock Logans squad, and he fails his leadership and falls back 6 or so. I have squads within 6", which will force him to fall back next turn. He contests this fact. After a brief "Discussion" involving his hurried explanation of some rule in the Wolves codex, I relent in the spirit of not being a dick. I should have right there gotten a ruling, because I knew I was right no matter what he said, (It turns out he did not have the FAQ and I was right, he should have continued to fall back and off the table, I win.) So, I assaulted the squad with a measly assault squad, he wins instantly, and consolidates, leaving himself no less then 16" away from my objective. I would say closer to 18", definitely not less then 12", meaning there was NO WAY he would be able to assault my objective turn 5.

Turn 5:
The time for the game is coming short. I suggest we do a time check because I dont want to get screwed. He says we are playing the turn, so I should go check time while he moves. Being the trusting sort, I agree, and go check time, we have about 9 minutes. I return to the table, and some how his model was roughly 6" away from my objective. This is a rough estimate since we did not have an exact measurement, but I would say he moved his squad about 9"... I was away from the table though... My mistake. On his assault, he uses his tape to do a quick measurement from a weird elevated angle, then quickly moves his model without confirming the distance, crashing it into base to base with mine, knocking down or away 3 of my models in the squad.... blank stare... mouth agape... I stammer... dumbfounded...

Let me elaborate.

First of all, I am rarely one to gripe about quarters or eighths of inches. But in this case, he screwed me on the Leadership test, and flat out cheated on the move while I was not looking. You wana bet your booty I am going to bust out the micrometer to measure his assault range. It was close, I am a fairly good estimate of assault range playing an assault army, and that was over 6". So he quickly measured, putting the end of the tape at my base, and holding the other end of the tape about 8 inches over the table. Without lowering the tape down to his model to see if it was within 6 inches, or even looking over the top of the tape to get an estimate, he charges his model into mine, proceeding to hit mine, knocking it back an inch, and knocking down other models. I object, politely. Saying that the measurement warranted a close look since it was soo close and such an important stage of the game...(meaning the difference between win or loss) He smirks and says, "well I can move it back 6" and slides his model back to about where it was...(on the short side.) I was shocked. Stupified. Stunned. All I could say was "Really?" and again, he offered a half cocked smirk. I have never been so completely riveted in a game in my life, any game. It was like he reached across the table and punched me in the gutt.

He went on to massacre, then assault my other objective, taking it as well. So, in two turns, my opponent covered about 3 feet of total distance, killed 3 squads, and claimed 2 objectives, with a single squad on foot, turning a major victory for me into a loss.

I tried to be a good sport, and apologized for my poor attitude, but there was little I could say. I did call over James, our club Space Wolf expert, and asked about the Leadership test, and James confirmed that the guy was not using the proper rules. Dave came over, and also confirmed. But Dave is a nice guy, and was hesitant to force a ruling. I calmly explained the situation. I didnt mention the outrageous movement, and grotesque assault "accident". I only said that his failure to have the proper codex, and taking advantage of my good sportsmanship in not wanting to cause a scene, despite the fact that I was certain I was right, turned what should have a been a win into a loss. (Honestly why would I argue, he was so far away from my squads that there was no way he would take them away before I shot the shit out of him.) I said that every thing that happened after that tank shock should be invalid. I asked Dave to make a ruling on that, but seeing that he was hesitant, and the guy was becoming obnoxious with his defense and arguement, I let dave off the hook and suggested we leave it to chance, "in light of other circumstances". The guy threw up a small objection, but shamefully agreed to the die roll. He won.

End result, what should have been a huge victory for me sending me into first place and a chance to win the whole tournament, turned into a Migraine and a sick feeling in the gut.

Now seriously on this, do I have a reason to feel sick? Do you guys think a die roll at the end was fair? Or should Dave have simply invalidated the end of the game due to the guy not having the proper codex.

Did he smack my models on purpose in that assault? It looked so effortless that I have to say yes. He knew it was gona be close, and he knew that doing so would eliminate any chance to question it. I want to give every one the benefit of the doubt, but you never know what people that want to win tournaments are capable of.

All I can say is that this dude made my ultimate shit list. Next tournament, I will give him NOTHING. I will confirm every measurement, contest every rule, watch every die roll. Vid will post as soon as it is ready.


sovietspace said...

Bummer mate, that sounds like a really horrible situation.

I think you have every reason to be pissed off, if not absolutely furious with the kid. I commend you for keeping your cool! I guess it would have been more trouble than it was worth.

As for the judgement, there is no doubt that a dice roll was grossly unfair to you, but its always difficult for judges to call it, especially if they weren't present. I would say that you would be fully justified in warning everybody you know about this character and refusing to play him again.

Either way, I'm sure that if he plays like that he will eventually get his comeuppance!

jawaballs said...

Thanks Soviet! Do bear in mind that I did reluctantly agree to his assessment of the leadership situation. I dont know space wolves, and I had such a headache that I didnt feel like reading the rule. Guh... Oh, and my friend Ed got to watch him in his next game... Ed agreed that the guy was sketchy. Also, you all might like to know that he got beaten in the last game. The guy who beat him won the tournament. :)

A. Lehtio said...

Woah now that space wolf player seems like a dick. You were aiming high in the ranking so you must feel like shit having your win stolen from you like that. Some people just go way too far to win. I must say however, I wouldnt have wanted to be in the judges shoes, situations like that are really hard.

CJ said...

Hey jawa that's on streak of bad luck and cheating. This is why even in friendly games I always ask the person to stop doing anything untill I come back to the table. things like this always seem to happen when your aren't looking. you might even want to place a security came on him next time.

To bad this probably cost you the tournament with all the effort you put into your army this is just the worst way to loose. some *ss thinking that measuring distances is something unimportant.

but I have to say that in light of the circumstances I would have not walked of the table with the previous Ld Incident. But It's just wrong to take advantage of that. The only thing I can say to you after this is You know you are the better player and better man here, and that's something to be proud off.

Cheers CJ

Sabb said...

That guy was a tool. I watched the last half oh his third game and he just whined the whole time about how his opponent was beating him. After what happened in your game, I told Mike to watch out for his shenanigans. It just blows you got taken advantage of because your a nice guy by some dude no one knew from Jersey.

Loxam said...

Sounds like a right kick in the nads!

You know what they say - "give them nothing. Take from them - EVERYTHING!!!!"

pissclams said...

as much as it sucked to see chris get boned out of a win i want to commend him for keeping his cool after having a win virtualy stolen from him. I watched part of his this guys last game and yes indeed he was a sketchy player who turned into a bitch once he saw the tournament slip from his hands. Chris, take solice in the fact that all that energy used to cheat didnt even get him a top 3 rank.


Matt said...

SeI jump into a beat down thread, BUT... being as most all tournaments state for a rule to be used a valid codex or faq must be present for it to be applied. This codex or faq must be supplied by the player. I personally hate cheating HATE!!! and dude should be pistol whipped for it, however i sort of have to blame your judge too. That should have been an auto and that squad should have been atleast pulled. Maybe forcing a draw. The cheated move well sorry jawa love ya nad all but you turned your back and well cheaters will cheat. However anyone whos read my blog knows model knocker overs are without a doubt on the top of my pissed off list. That move was total horse crap. You were in the right and should have gotten a judge at the time. However it's easy to play armchair quaterback. I also know you try to go for best sport and painted and all and try not to be a "dick" but you were in the right man. I totally feel for you in that loss and I know your pain. This guys name wasn't Erin was it?
On a lighter note how'd your boys do in the painting comp. I've been awaiting those results since you started the tank of flying death.

jawaballs said...

Thanks for the comments all! Ive been sittin here thinking that I over vented... but the more people say, the more I get angry! Some one said that you can have 1 HQ per every 750 points? This guy had 3 HQ. Are those numbers right? Some one also said you can only have Logan in a 2k point game. Is that still true? Grr.

Yah, I know, I deserved the cheat BS. I trusted the dude and turned my back on him during a pivotal move turn. He knew that if he did not get into assault range, I was gona mow that squad down. The temptation was huge. I had a Baal Pred and half a Tac Squad with a Lascannon ready to rip em up, and there were only 4 marines and Logan left. I would have moved and run my squad away, and gotten two rounds of shooting off on him, killing the 4 marines, then finishing off Logan with the Lascannon. Then just gone and reclaimed my objective when he was dead in the last turn. Bah. If ifs and butts were candies and nutts, We'd all have a merry christmas.

As far as him not having the new FAQ. Why would he want it when it reduces the effectiveness of certain rules. Much more convenient to just "forget" it.

Brother Sgt James said...

hey jawa
cuse i love you so mutch

Since the publication of Codex: Space Wolves, the
Warhammer 40,000 rulebook and a new
Codex: Space Marines have been released (you
will need both to play a Space Wolves army). This
document explains how to use the Space Wolves
in conjunction with these books.
And They Shall Know No Fear: Use as in Codex:
Space Marines.

Brother Sgt James

jawaballs said...

Ohhh yah, painting... I took third. My two friends, Matt and Ed took 1st and 2nd respectively. We swept the painting, which is a matter of pride for us. We take it the artistry of it very seriously. As far as me coming in third, I won best painted at one of these tournaments already. I suspect that they have an unwritten rule that no one can win with the same army twice. But I dont want to take any thing away from Matt and Ed. Matt is a better painter in many regards, and he used all of his strengths in his Chaos army. He deserves the win, though the judge was a former Chaos man... sorta skewed the results me thinks.. :) As for Ed, it was his first tournament and he was well liked. Very Charismatic guy. His army is beautiful, and when it is finished, will be better then mine as it is now. Maybe. He doesnt really have the hand painting and banners down, but his technical skill is better then mine. Mind you, both of these guys have been in the hobby for perhaps a combined 2 decades. Ive been at it less then 2 years. So the fact that I can compete at tournaments, and push these two veterans to improve their work is a boon for me. It seems every week one of us is showing up with something to top another. The three of us talk a lot and add a lot to each others work.

Honestly, I have learned that Best Painted/Best Army comes down solely to opinion. Some guys might love Ultramarines, so when two armies are close, of course the Ultras will get the nod. I won a best army at another tournament because I think I swayed the judge, even though the guy I beat out should have probably won based on battle points. The judge LOVED my army. At the GT one judge gave me maximum painting points, then when they came around for another pass to break ties, I had a score 6 points less from another.

It was good to see Matt win though. I appeared on the scene at our club and sort of stole some of his spotlight with my flashy red models. They are simply more hot on the table which sways paint judges. When you look close at individual models, you can see that Matt is more skilled... for now. I am glad to see him get that recognition. But I'm coming man!

jawaballs said...

Ahhh James! There it is. I wish you had slinked your way over to my table 10 minutes earlier. I would have chased that squad off the table with a stupid Rhino and won the game, then played for the title!

Michael said...

I watched your vid and read your blog. Too bad man. I am an easy going person too and I got into very competitive card playing back in the mid-90's and took that same attitude into that. It was a mistake. A good way to look at it is if there is a prize or reward at the end, you play to win it or dont. Weak people will do all they can to win and you have to play everyone like they are weak. That sounds bad, but man people you think are good people will try to slip something by and pull an "Oh I forgot" kinda thing.

In your video you said a couple things that might have pushed this goof into cheating you. You proclaimed victory before the end of the game. Actually you said something like you garunteed it. That kinda stuff can piss people off and make them cheat ya.

So this is some advice from a guy who likes competitive gaming of all types...

1. You play to win. If you expect to finish near the top, you play that way. Fun games are for fun.
2. Dont talk poo. Just dont. You can use this game as an example.

Everyone will say "Oh youre so serious... blah blah" but man, you seem to have fun when playing fun games. People seem to have a good time playing you. For all those games you have fun playing with all those people testing out all your lists, you have fun. You put in a lot of time making lists and painting your army and when you pay money and want to win, you should be allowed to concentrate more because when you DO win, it feels good.

Have a blast and play for fun. You can also play hard and win tournaments.

jawaballs said...

Right on that man, which is why I posted that vid. Lesson learned, I opened my mouth. Though, he had walked away, and wasnt there to hear me talking poo. :) All he heard was me breaking down the extra points. In my defense though, as I saw it, only an act of god, or cheating, would stop my win. Gulp...

Xadhoom said...

Guys like that is the reason I've stopped playing at tournaments. I only play casual games with my friends, in a friendly and well-mannered environment.

The last tournament I attended, about 18 months ago, I had to tolerate all sorts of attempts to cheat against me. At the time I had been thwarted the win at the "top table" in two consequtive tournaments. I had learned my lesson, as you now have, so this time I stopped my opponent every time I was unsure on some obscure interpretation of the rules or some codex-only special rule. It paid off, and I won the tournament.

From your videos, you seem like a nice opponent to play. But if the opponent is being a dick, you go after them with rulebook in hand and smite them in the name of the Emperor!

Old Shatter Hands said...

Dice to determine an end result, not fair at all. Imagine if they did that at the Olympics! I think the real loss here is the failure of the judges to make a fair ruling. The last thing you need in any case is an indecisive judge who leaves it up to die-roll!!!!

Peter said...

that's just ridiculous!!! it usually comes in the basic tournatment rules as standard to have the rule book, codex and appropriate FAQ. I'm definetly I'm gonna take a watch next tournament, I haven't been to one in ages infact...

Docrailgun said...

He shouldn't have even been allowed to play in the tournament if he didn't have the proper materials.

Brother Defilus said...

Dude, that is the biggest load of crap I've ever seen pulled off in a tourney. Only thing that would have made it worse is if the guy changed his equipment midgame -_- tis not a joy.

As for a dice roll, that is not fair in a game like that. Simple rule - no codex, no game IMO. Dave, whilst yeah, being a nice guy and not wanting a scene, seems to me to be out of order.

Good luck next time mate, its games like that that make you loose faith in 40k players, but just remember guys like that are in the minority and don't get nearly as much out of the game as honest gamers in for the good time.

Harassment said...

There are some people who will take every little bit they can get away with. Lucky for us, the Brothers Grim tournaments don't draw too many of them (maybe 2-3 max).

I was the guy who played your nemesis on turn 3.

Thanks to being warned before hand of the shenanigan potential I put full use of my $100K+ of law school loans to force him to run a clean game.

But he still ott one over on me! I forgot what turn it was (doofus) and he set it back one - we played eight turns! On turn 8 he almost pulled off a draw, but I guess Karma wasn't on his side then, either. I didn't figure it out until after the game was over, but since I won I decided not to make a deal of it.

Maybe Karma was at work, because not only did I draw first turn, but the "wild" squig ran straight into my terminator squad with librarian. They then used the librarian's gate of infinity power to move out of harm's way. I spent the whole game keeping the two objectives far out of his reach. Because of that first die roll, he never really had a chance despite having 8 turns to do it (I refused to have my dudes actually do anything that wasn't long-range fire).

As for your painting, I havn't yet seen an army at Brothers Grimm that's better painted than yours. The problem you're running into is that a new army will always appear a little better, enough to win over a slightly better but already-seen army. I must say that I didn't get a good look at Matt's army, however.

jawaballs said...

I think we actually played 7 turns. I was counting, and something seems off. But I dont have any way to prove. He was the one keeping track... and did need another turn...

jawaballs said...

And as for painting... I think there is simply hesitation to let some one rest on their laurels. So, I started painting a new army. Next Bro Grim tournament, I will be putting a never before seen force on the table. Probably wont win many games, but I will have a shot at best army which is what I really want any way. Good thing I got a few months! And I am glad you won that game. He was standing there sputtering after the game was over. Did my heart good.

Sabb said...

I was talking to peeps and there's like a 99.9% chance that we're adding a sportsmanship scores from each game to the overall totals. I also think we're going to do a 5 pt painting scale to encourage people(like me) to get painting; while rewarding those who took the time to finish. Losing like 12 points cause one plays like a Tool hopefully will be a big enough deterrent.

Comp scoring is way to subjective and can be done horribly wrong as was demonstrated at Conflict(and that's our OPINION, and I'm sure others thought it was fine). Due to that, I don't see us doing it for our one-day tourneys. Though, Grimm will probably come up with something once they open up the basement and we can throw GTs.

jawaballs said...

Sportsman and painting scores are a good idea. Comp scores... unless they are done with a predetermined rubric for assessment, suck. I totally agree, that the Conflict pooched some dudes based on bias. But also, major tournaments are about winning. If we were all there to hold hands and sing camp fire songs, we might as well be having a girl scouts convention. I hold no grudge towards some one who has fielded the best his army can offer. And I come to win. I expect every one else to. For the Emperor.

Anonymous said...

dude that sucks. i hate cheaters. i would like to play a good challenging game and lose rather than cheat. If i ever did cheat i would feel so dirty (covered in mud dirty). As soon as i start to play im not letting anyone out of my sight! Jawa i like the good sportsmanship and i hope you dont lose it. the only person who lost was that moron who cheated because no matter if he won there is still that nagging at the back of his head where he knows that he cheated and that he didnt really win. aka he sucks big time if he has to go so low as to cheat.

jhulance said...

Hi guys,

Some interesting comments here.

Personally, as someone who is very competitive, I despise cheating. Take comfort that the human brain is designed to change its way of thinking based on mistakes. So you will learn from this experience and if it ever happens again, it will twig immediatly.

I dont think you did anything wrong, anyone who has ever played halo 3 online will tell you what smack talk really is.

Anyway, as Rocky Balboa says,

The world aint all sunshine and rainbows, its a very mean and nasty place and i dont care how tough you are it will beat you too your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me or nobody can hit as hard as life. But it aint how hard you hit, its about how much you can get hit and keep moving forward , how much you can take and KEEP MOVING FORWARD, thats how winning is done. Now If you know what your worth then go out and get what your worth, but YOU GOT TO BE WILLING TO TAKE THE HITS, and not pointing fingers saying you aint where you wanna be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that and that aint you, your better than that!

Anyway, have a beer and chill.



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