Assuming all information to date is correct, I have come up with my first trial assault list for Blood Angels. Time to get back to my original roots.
Dante
Corbulo (Sanguinary Priest) He has been removed from the dex, but you can pretty much build him and give him a jump pack, power fist and inferno pistol. Muahaha.
Tactical squad x3
10 marines
Melta
Lascannon (or multi melta)
power weapon (or fist)
locator beacon
Drop pod
Assault squad x2
7 marines
meltagun
power weapon
Storm Harbinger Assault Craft
That is around 1850 points.
What do I have? 46 pissed off Blood Angels led by Dante and Corbulo and two Baal preds with wings. There is not a lot of traditional stuff here, but there is more then you would at first think due to the precision strike ability. All three of the tactical squads have homing beacons. So, on turn one, since BA now had Drop Pod Assault, I drop two of them into rapid fire range of whatever I choose needs to die. They deploy into cover and hold out, going to ground if need be. Next turn, all hell breaks loose. The first 20 guys on the table need only keep one guy up. Then the next pod, and both landers can come down on the beacon. With the ability to precisely place the landers, Dante and Corbulo can lead the assaults out of the crafts and decimate enemy forces. Each squad, with Dante and Corbs will be packing 2 meltaguns each, plus hopefully a heavy weapon survived from the tacticals, so there should be plenty of tank popping power to crack open those shells and let Dante assault. There you have it! All 5 squads are scoring and corbs can grant preferred enemy while the models themselves have a chance to get furious charge. So Dante will be attacking at initiative 6, with 6 attacks, hitting on 3, rerolling misses, and wounding on 2.
Corbulo will be punching things in the face with his new power fist toy, and dont forget 14 assault marines doing their thing.
Options? I can afford to go without one of the tacticals. The third was thrown in for redundancy. I can throw in some Death Company in a pod, or a Furioso. At any rate, I need 3 pods because with DPA I have to place two on turn one. And I need 20 tactical marines to be on the table to ensure that at least one homing beacon survives to bring my landers home. Of course, going 2nd is a big help. Then my 20 marines only need to suffer one round of shooting... and the standard tactic to defeat DPA is to reserve everything. So I should have plenty of tactical marines and homing beacons on the table with only 2 tacticals.
Of course this list has its weaknesses. But 40sum marines getting in your face on turn 2 is nothing to laugh at. The biggest weakness of this list before the new dex is the lack of the landers, and more importantly, the lack of the ability to assault. Assault squads in pods were dead on arrival. But being able to ride a beacon home, get out, shoot and assault will change the game.
Of course, keep in mind that his is a first reaction to completely unconfirmed information. It should all be considered conjecture.
More to come...
Jawaballs
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21 comments:
I managed to sneak a look at the new dex and I have to say - I really like it. It has a nice emphasis on delivering the hurt right to your opponent's face and probably wiping them out as opposed to the Space Wolves' sledgehammer to the face that guarantees wiping the opponent out.
On the flipside, Blood Angels players will be dealing with cries of "Storm is overpowered cheese" and I'm fairly certain that red will be the new green.
Two words:
Daemonhunter Mystics
At least I know my IG army will be "requisitioning" a pair very, very soon... :D
Whatever, bring em... they cant stop my two pods from coming on turn one and I will start the landers on the table. :)
I'm pretty excited about the book myself. I'm probably aiming more towards using Seth to give my Raven Guard back furious charge and fleet. However, I really haven't pointed out any lists yet.
I had to re-read the tactical squad entry like 5 times to make sure I wasn't imagining the locator beacons for 30pts. The AC 13 furioso dreads are pretty nasty too
I'm not totally sold on the Harbringers yet. It's 18" range and the AssCannons are considered all 1 weapon. Granted, it's what's jumping out of them that should be the real target. BTW, Is there going to be a model for it?
I would imagine there would be a model. How can they pass up the chance to charge 65 dollars for a model that every one is going to want. I cant imagine a marine player will not buy one. And you wana bet that they will make them available to all marines.
When thinking about using them for dreads, they are better served as a drop pod that the dread does not have to disembark out of when it lands. Instead you can pop smoke. Your enemy has to first pop an armor 13 tank with smoke. Then they have to deal with a dread! Much better then now with the dread coming out of a pod and catching every heavy weapon on the table.
But also they give you the option of just reserving them and coming 24" off the table edge and doing the same thing with no scatter.
It will be like my old army with the fast moving Rhinos with little assault squads. Moving fast, popping smoke and waiting til next turn. Only now with nasty dreads... Mmmm dreads. And if the ship survives and manages to get in a turn of shooting... a butt load of rending shots. Remember it is only 18" but it can move 12" before fireing it.
Yes, it is going to cause a LOT of crying. :) I am going to print out a bunch of pictures of Ork Nob Bikers, Mek Boys, Valkryes, Vulkan, Farseers and nice close ups of Stellek, Jwolf and Fritz and keep them in my pocket. Every time some one cries to me, I will start playing them like Magic cards. :)
30 points for the beacon? When you think about the fact that you can bring in transports on it that allow you to assault, or a squad with the banner of sanguinus to deep strike and assault ala Vanguard Vets Heroic Intervention, but way cheaper, and you are looking at an upgrade worth every point.
What do you think about all the options of the Baal Preds? Pretty nasty. I see you are not using them in your list, any reason? Being fast and able to shoot all weapons at 6" and 1+defensive at 12, I'd think some of those combos, like the multiple missile launcher could be pretty tasty.
This is an assault oriented list. Believe me, I love my Baal preds. Such is the problem with the new dex. Point cost.
I've spent the morning reading the new Codex and I'm looking forward to seeing the variety of lists that you and other vet BA players start coming up with.
Any thoughts yet on a Dread heavy army?
Where can I find all of this specific information?
A dread list will be possible with a Librarian as HQ and dreads as both Elite and fast or heavy I think. But if I am right, Furioso cannot be Venerable. That will lessen their power. A dread list, while a great idea, will still probably not work well. You would need drop a lot of points on getting them into combat. I will give it a shot, but the points cost will be way to high to make it happen... and that will give the enemy more ways to kill them than you have to play them.
You can find the link on probably any forum by now. I chose not to post it up. Try bolter and chainsword.
Heh. I wasn't think quite -that- Dread heavy. I'm not seeing anywhere in the codex I've got about Dreads being Elites - only Heavy and FA. And it looks like the only way to get Ven Furiosos is to use Moriar.
Ahh I had not seen that they are not elites... I was banking off the last dex in that regard. I would have to see where i use them.
I like a lot of what they have done. Some things I really wish they would do to the normal dex. Stuff like dedicated Land Speeder Storms (see my 10th Company Space Marine post and you will see how much better it is if the LS Storms are dedicated), and the evil Storm Harbinger is very nice. But will it really be available to us poor saps having to make do with a counts-as-ultra-marines 'dex? (I'm just saying: Yellow!)
The Baals also got great weapon loadouts, and if they release a nice kit will all those weapons... I will be very very much thinking of a BA army in the future (after my other three armies in the works, though I could wait with the Eldar and Orks a bit:))
All the awesome new SM 'dexes really makes it obvious that it is time to give the xenos some love though.
A couple of comments based on the comments!
Saab, an interesting choice there with Seth for Raven Guard, but do you realise that he also forces the 'rage' rule on your army? It isn't going to be a timed surgical strike behind enemy lines, more a headlong run into guns :/
As for the model for the Harbinger? Guys come on, you realise that the rules have been written like this precisely because a new model is being released? Look at the Nid dex - Carnifexes get nerfed, then the 'Morelok' is released which is a no-brainer to buy. Now the new overcharged engines rule looks set to turn rhinos into fast coffins, and suddenly a 140pt fast gunship with armour 13, with a super assault cannon and instant 'assault direct from the vehicle' is released? The name is a clue: 12 year olds might not understand the word Harbinger, and in the absence of it just looking like a giant bomb on the box, they've added the word 'storm' in front; A kick-ass word which dispels any doubt over what it actually does.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was slightly more than 60 dollars though, it might be pretty big looking at the carrying capacity.
The Land Raider can hold 16 though. At least one of them. So not that much bigger than a Land Raider is needed.
I find the cynicism pretty much an excercise in repetition. This is not something important, like our health, food, shelter. This is a game. I haven't met anyone actually working for GW, I have only read White Dwarf really, but I honestly believe that they are trying to make a good game. Sure I don't always agree with what they do, but I really don't think that there is a cold hearted bastard planning on how to best take my money.
This is not meant to start a flamewar nor as a personal attack on anyone. I am sure that it most often is an internet meme retold time and again as a way to went frustration. I feel frustration too, but I don't let it kill the joy of the game.
Here's to hoping that the new BA 'dex will bring lots of joy to a lot of people, both players and opponents.
I'm also looking forward to see how the minis will turn out:)
And if I made a BA army, I would load up and assault troops and harbingers too. Jump packs deserve more love:)
keep in mind you cant take a priest with the red grail AND a jump pack. if he has the grail, he has to be on foot.
Yeah, was writing lists today and realized for the first time how much the Rage special rule throws a wrench into everything. When I saw Seth I was thinking it was like the Red Thirst that triggers when you're withing 12 inches of an enemy. I don't know how one can hold objectives in their backfield when your whole army has rage unless you keep your tacs in a rhino the whole time.
I don't think it throws a wrench into the works of everything - I think it just means you need to think more strategically about using units with Paragon and Laurels of Thorns.
I have no doubt that GW will produce some cracking models for the new codex, and the new codex looks a LOT of fun to play - I think its great that like the last few codecies, there is more than one way you can make up an army depending on preference. I've been using the BA dex for the last few years, and am excited as hell about it!
But, I don't think my cynicism is misplaced - game mechanics and balance have been taking a back seat ever since Apocalypse was released, and each new book usually comes with a 'must have' new release kit, usually with a corresponding nerfing of one that everyone already has in their collection.
The only thing worse than this new Codex I can think of is when FW had loads of those Lucius drop pods kicking around in storage, so they made it ridiculously powerful just to try and sell them :)
The new, more financially successful GW is a two-edged sword I guess!
This list looks really old school. Have you come up with anything different now that we all know pretty much what BA will have? I am really considering dropping tactical Marines, which were a mainstay for my old list.
G
Yah, my new list to start with will be:
Dante 225
Librarian Furioso 125
Librarian 50
Sanguinary Guard 200
Infernus Pistol x1 10
Fist 10
Death Co. Dread 125
Blood Talons -
Sanguinary Priest 50
Jump Pack 25
PW 15
Troops:
Tactical 90
+5 80
Lascannon 10
PW 15
Death Company 60
+2 40
Jump Packs 75
PW x3 45
Storm Raven 200
TL Multi -
Extra armor 15
Storm Raven 200
TL Multi -
Extra armor 15
Baal Pred 115
Heavy Flamer 25
EA 15
My tried and true tactical in the back, with a Baal causing all sorts of trouble, and two flyers delivering death. A dread and assault squad i each with Dante with the Sang Guard and the Priest with the DC. This is more of my endulgence list rather then a truly competitive one.
For a truly competitive one I am thinking a Tactical, a couple RAS in Razors, a Librarian, 3 baals and 2 vindis and a Las sponson pred.
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