Hard Boys to Hard Boiled! Jawaballs gets thumped.





The club that I attend, Battle for Salvation, held another tournament this weekend. I won the last two, so was going for the threepeat. However, I knew it was not going to be an easy win. My previous two wins both came after having some failure in early rounds. My first BFS win came after only managing a draw vs Khornate Kris's "Best Of" marine list. My second BFS win came after a second round draw vs an Eldar army.  Both times it was a struggle.  I expected nothing less this time.

Round one opened up vs a Daemonhunter army consisting of 2 land raiders, 4 squads of Grey Knights, a squad of GK termies with a Bro Capt. and a Dread.  I managed to kill his terminators in my first round of shooting, and had him in assault on turn one.  GKs are nasty in assault, but Mephiston is nastier, and 45 minutes later the game was over. My opponent was a fantastic sport!  

The stage was set for a showdown between me and Danny Internets in round three.  

Unfortunately Ultrabob's magic computer matched us up in round two... 

So there we were... our first tournament meeting. Danny had his IG Alpha Strike army of death.  I knew I would probably end up facing him for the win, so I packed Corbulo in my army to give me a reroll at Seize the Initiative.  Danny has Emperor's Tarot which gives him a +1 to the die roll to go first. When he wins first turn he scout moves his valkries, then disembarks and charges his vets with meltabombs and melta guns, pretty much obliterating his opponent.  

Danny won the die roll of course, and it would come down to me trying to seize.  He set up his alpha strike, then it was my turn to try the steal... die roll 1... nothing... the reroll?  Fail.  That was my chance! We both knew how it would go.  It would have been easier to just pack it up right there and call it a game. But I let Danny pound on me for Hard Boys practice.  :)  Four rounds later the beating was mercifully over. Danny tabled me.  I believe that was the first time that ever happened to me outside of Fritz's living room!

For shits and giggles though, we played another game, with all the same setup, but as if I won the Seize the Initiative.  I didn't do it quite so easily, but the result proved me right. I tabled Dan more or less. (we realized that we had forgotten about an immobilized Valkrye at the end.)  

It boils down to a point I had made about IG ruining 5th edition. The game has been rendered down to the old 4th ed "Shoot first and win" matra where it is all about the luck of the draw. This time I was out drew.  

My round two score of ZERO points throw me into the middle tables some where, and I ended up against a player I played at the last Brothers Grim tournament... Eldar... (Cue disgusted grimace.)  My old nemesis of 3 falcons full of direavengers, 3 serpents full of Dragons, and a Bike Council was back.  Gack.  

Mephiston would be of little value in this game. His inability to use psychic powers due to the Eldar runes is frustrating. I did manage to get a power off and assault a Serpent, hitting it 3 times... but rolled no higher than 2.  In fact, I assault 3 serpents on my first turn, scoring no less than a dozen penetrations.  Nothing but weapon destroyed and shaken results. No shit.  No wait... one was stunned.  

On his turn the Eldar player focused on Mephiston and killed him with melta fire.  Then I wrapped up his dragons. The rest of the game would be a cat and mouse between my assault squads and his council. I did score a lucky kill on a Falcon by praying to the emperor. I fired a single lascannon across the table, hit the Falcon, penetrated, my opponent failed his cover save, and I rolled the double six for the explosion.  

The game would end in a minor victory for my opponent as he edged me out in kill points by 2.  I would finish the day with 29 our of 69 battle points.  Definitely a humbling day for the Jawabumble!




Summary: 
I need to refine my 1850 list.  It needs either a complete overhaul, or some minor tweaking.  I think I am definitely going to drop Mephiston again. He is fun, but an unnecessary point sink at 1850.  I think a librarian back in the Land Raider is a better choice.  Corbs is another point sink.  105 points just to reroll seize the initiative?  I had to reduce my priests from two to one, reducing my assault strength vs his Seer Council.  I feel that the strength of the BA dex is that priests allows you to double the strength of a 5 man assault squad... lacking that power my squads were ineffective.  Plus I have yet to win a reroll in tournament play. It will be great when it happens, and I am taking Corbs to Hard Boys, but I think in my 1850 list he can be demoted.  

So drop Meph and Corbs= 355 points
Buy termy libby w/storm shield=145
Buy termy priest and reguler priest with pw=150

Last 60 points? Melta speeder? Do I drop one of my ac/lc predators and replace it with another razor back? Do I not bother with the termy priest and just keep him in the land raider as a buff battery? Saving 45 points on the libby and 35 on the priest gives me 80, plus the 60... there goes another razorback squad with assault or tl las... 

Plenty to ponder!  

More to come...

Jawaballs

23 comments:

Magilla Gurilla said...

While I know that you are really attempting to keep your army completely mechanized, BA Codex has a real advantage when it comes to Devestator Squads due to the point cost.
Now, I am not saying I have the points worked out, but is it feasible for you to add a 5 man squad with missile launchers?
Yes, I know they are not mobile and they can not split their fire. However, when facing IG mech, they can really do wonders against vehicle squadrons, or that vehicle you really have to get rid of...just an idea.

Danny Internets said...

We talked about Mephiston and I think you're right about Corbulo too. He's only worth it if you really need to win the first roll-off.

Against armies like mine you can simply accept losing the first turn and either bubble wrap your vehicles or hold things in reserve. The latter would probably be best because smart players will gun down your Troops if you put them in the open in an objectives mission, especially if you stick with only 15.

Against other armies, your army (at 1850) isn't packing enough firepower to cripple opponents on the first turn, largely due to spending points on Mephiston, the Land Raider, and your Terminators. None of these units are bad, but they don't fit an alpha strike theme.

Jawaballs said...

I have been considering the Devs... but I just don't know if they are superior to a predator.

Danny, you make a great point. Perhaps I should drop the deathstar!

6 Assault squads with priests in a combo of Razors and raiders. Keeping my predators of course. I will check the points.

Nikkin said...

Against army like eldar or when you can't use psychic powers, i think the sanguinor is a better choice of mephiston. Give it a try, maybe it helps but the reality is that 250 or more points for a special character in a 1850 list are too many points.

Griffin said...

Were the IG vets a problem to your tanks only? What else did they have?

From what I've seen, IG vet melta spam fails a little bit to infantry heavy lists.

Thomas aka Goatboy said...

I too am tired of IG. I have to do reserve shenanigans or go first to push the win in my favor. Something that isn't fun for both opponents. I am hoping that with the drop of allies in the coming months, things will get better. In fact, if I see allies in an army I am just not impressed with the player's army. The army is designed with weaknesses and to cut out those weaknesses using an extremely old rule is kinda BS in my opinion. If you win with what just comes in your codex, then awesome. But when you start adding in old rules to cover up your holes, it just shows that you would rather have a crap game then make an interesting one.

Alpha strike - making 40k boring since IG came out :).

Against IG, reserve if you are not going first. Against other armies, create armor 13 walls to protect your rhinos as you move up etc (LoganWing Rocket spam etc).

Jawaballs said...

I should have reserved. Bubble wrapping would have just coughed up easy victory points vs my list. But I was feeling lucky! Two 1 in 6 chances to cripple your opponent are not bad at all. The sad part is for some reason GW has taken Seize the Initiative out of Hard Boys...

Brodrick said...

who won the tourney? How did Fritz's grey knights fare?

Robert said...

I had A similar list to yours for 1750 with a Deathstar unit of terminators in a crusader and Mephiston But they were a serious points sink and more than half the time the terminators never made their points back.
So I dropped them for an assault squad with equipment, usually a powerfist and meltagun in the crusader, accompanying a librarian with powers of your choice, shield is great, other one up to you. that still freed up enough points to get a second assault squad, 5 men no upgrades in a TL laserback to hold the home objective and take on tanks easily too, as well as points to buff my other units.

have that unit supported by assault cannon razors and you have a decent mix then. Just a thought. DeathStar units rarely make their full points back is all...

Jawaballs said...

A guy from Brothers Grim playing Space Wolves won the tournament. Fritz did not play his Grey Knights, he played his nids, and was up to win the whole thing! But he met the thunderwolves in the last game...

Ultra Vulkan said...

I think you need to consider running 9 man Squads in Rhinos with Priest (melta gun, powerfist & melta pistol sergeant; priest with power weapon). I began running this unit instead of my 5 man priest RAZ squads and am loving the results. I also saw a list on BOLS for hard boys which leverages the rhino assault marine list.

spy_smasher said...

There's a logical disconnect when you say that IG have ruined the game but Blood Angels have not. You both tabled your opponent when you went first.

The logical conclusion is that going first has ruined the game -- which is a pretty silly conclusion.

And then you tell us that you didn't reserve against his alpha strike.

Overcome and adapt, baby. It's a first turn world.

Da Warboss said...

How many times have I mentioned the cheese that is Thunderwolves....

Fritz said...

Thunder wolves POWNED ME! My opponent was very good with them and dismantled my army bit by bit with them. Ouch!

Michael said...

Fritz, how do you get around having to depend on cover saves but not having a frag grenade equivalent?
This, and not the lack of invulnerable saves, is to me the real flaw of the 'nid codex as it now stands.

Fritz said...

No frag grenades hasn't been that much of a problem since I use the run rule to get me out of cover before the assault, and on the fexes I've got spines or whatever that has frags.

No invul or even armor saves on the stealers just sucks, and that is what pushes the 'dex to a second tier codex- why couldn't GW at least give me the option to get armor saves by paying extra points and invul saves on tyrants and such. Poor design in my opinion. That said, spore pods have opened up some interesting tactcs since they use the deepstrike rules and not drop pod assault rules.

Azrael said...

The option for invulnerable saves for a race with so many monstrous creatures would be a really bad idea.

Alpha strikes seem to be the order of the day where you guys are, but nobody does it over here. It shouldn't be possible to do, so if you are suffering it, you are doing something really wrong, with list, deployment, or both. When I see tournament reports on BoLS, I get the strong impression your playing styles and tournaments are very 'rock paper scissors' sometimes you annihilate your opponent, sometimes you suffer it. You should come to Britain and play here, learn some new tricks and styles, then you wouldn't have that problem ;)

Da Warboss said...

(Da Warboss aka Zatoichicblindsowrd) It's pretty sad when the only thing capable of killing a twolf model in one hit, a fast attack choice, is a STR 10 attack, if you can get past the 3+ stormshield invul. They make normal T 4 assault termies w/shields look like grots.

Da Warboss said...

Maybe Fritz with your grey knights has the best chance with GK/Inq weapons that ignore invulns.

Danny Internets said...

@Da Warboss

Unfortunately the only GK/Inq weapons that ignore invulnerable saves are only AP4, so they still get their 3+ armor save (which is the same as the invulnerable save).

The Callidus Assassin is the exception because it is a power weapon that ignores invulnerable saves, but he's only S4 and costs a truckload relative to threat he represents.

Without allied IG, Daemon Hunters really take it in the butt when it comes to facing Assault Terminators. GKTs cost more and they get smacked down hard in a head-to-head match, even before you take Null Zone into account.

will said...

Jawaballs, about the alpha strike. I think in your next tournament list, most likely hard boys, that you there is a good chance that you'll face an IG leaf blower list. First thing is using corbulo to re-roll the dice roll to go first instead of the initiative roll. Statistically it has a better chance, even if you're going up against IG with their plus one to the roll. Second, I would consider giving your librarian shield of sanguinius and either blood lance of the strength 10 power. Because the shield of sanguinius goes off in the opponents shooting phase you won't have to upgrade to epistolary which saves fifty points. I would also consider a stormraven instead of a landraider, with extra armour, four bloodstrike missiles, a twin linked lascannon, and finally a twin linked multi-melta it puts out a good bit of alpha strike especially because there is nothing saying you can't fire all four bloodstrike missiles in the first turn. With armour 12 all around I would definately put the librarian inside with the termies to give the 5 up cover to all units within 6" to make it even more survivable with its extra mobility. Plus it is fairly easily made out of a valkarie kit and some plasticard. Also consider a furioso dreadnought librarian with blood lance and a drop pod for some serious anti-tank and shield of sangunius for extra survivability. It provides a great distraction and can really wreck against all those lined up IG tanks. Anyway there is a lot to consider so let me know what you think.

Da Warboss said...

Take tanks. Period. Baals are so cheap for what they do it's criminal NOT to take them at 2500.

ibril said...

Hi there.

Jawa any chances you could post your 1850 and 1750 lists?

What do you think about baal preds? I have read on warseer that they are not worth it, that its better to simpli run sniper dread with tl AC is that true?

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