Mail Call! Taking Qs... Kicking As.

What is your primary malfunction maggot!?!

Time for some mail call!  I don't do this enough. In general, most of the emails I get have to do with two things. Either list help, or a very very hard question as follows:

hey jawaballs love your vids i am new to warhammer 40k and i do not fully understand all the rules i get how to move your army and about building a army but the actual gameplay is what im not so sure about i have a rulebook but i need advice from a advanced really good player like you please help thank you

How do I answer that! I can write a book on this and not even scratch the surface. If I can throw you some tidbits of advice for a total noobie, I would say first of all, spend a couple hours looking through the GW website. Before you even start caring about how the game works, you need to decide if you are serious about going into it. Then figure out what models you like the most. Don't worry about what is good, what has the best fluff, what armies win the most tournaments. Worry about what YOU like. You will be building and painting models that you pay a LOT of money for. Make sure you are doing it for the right reasons.  The first tank I ever bought was the Vindicator because I thought it was awesome. I went with Space Marines because I remembered all those old pictures from when 40k first started of the beaky marines in huge combats.  I wanted to collect them!  I do Blood Angels now because I love assault marines, and red is my favorite color.  So go with that first. If you like anime aliens in mech armor, go with Tau. If you like Ripley Scott aliens infesting planets, go with Tyranids. If you like Starship Troopers with hundreds of grunts pounding the ground and dieing like gnats, go with Imperial Guard. They are all good.

Start small. Buy yourself a SINGLE SQUAD. Assemble and paint it. Then get another. A transport or something. Build your army slowly. DO NOT collect an entire army and stack the boxes on your shelf or worse open and assemble them all. You are a long way off from playing full games, so don't worry about a full army. Aim small... figure out what is in a 500 point force and build that army. Then learn how to play with it.

Find a friend.  Get some one else into it with you. Two noobies learn faster than one nooby and a vet. When I started learning Fritz was teaching me, but I came to rely on him knowing the rules and I was learning poorly. It was not until another nooby and I got together at my house and we played the game for like 8 hours, lookign up every single rule every single time.  That is the only way.

Look up every single rule, every single time.  Thats right! Do not be afraid to look up rules. We learn through repetition. Do not be embarrassed, but do not let some one who knows more about the game rush you through learning the rules. Ask for explanations until you fully understand them, then do it again.

Thats about it for that! Follow those rules and you are well on your way.

List Help!


Hey Chris, I was wondering if you could review my 2k list for local play. Whenever you get a free minute. No rush.

I have a lot of IG, SM and Tau in my area. Now I can’t decide what to do about my hammernators, put them in a SR or LRC? I like the SR cuz I can add the furioso with it. With the LRC I can throw my HQ with the Priest and Termies in it. With the SR I do Termies, Priest, and Resc + Furioso. Your thoughts please, Thanks! -Dan

:HQ:
Libby- TDA + Storm Bolter
U.Rage, Smite

Reclusiarch

:Elite:
Furioso - Talons, H. Flamer

Hammernators SS

Priest- Power Sword

:Troops:
Tact - Flamer, ML
Rhino

Tact - Plasgun, Plascan
Rhino

Scouts - Snipers, ML

:FA:
VGV - Sgt x2 LC, TH, Single LC, x2 CCW+BP
Jump Packs

Landspeeders x2 - Typhoon, AssCan

:HS:
Devastators - x3 ML, LC

Storm Raven - TL PlasCan

-1975 Total
-25pt for whatever extra

Ok. On quick review, I would say that I would love to face your list in a GT.  For local play it is decent, and actually probably better because you wont be crushing every one and will be more likely to get other guys to play.  Remember that my point of view comes from that of a Grand Tournament contender who goes to win every time. I am not really the guy to ask about list building for your LGS.  In that regard your list will be strong but not crushing and most armies should be able to put up a fun fight.

Now if you want to push this, as I think you do since you were asking about better options for your termies, get them in a Land Raider Crusader and drop the hammer time. Hammertime goes against what makes Blood Angels good, The Red Thirst.  If you want to play hammernators, play Codex Marines. They have other strengths to wrap around those hammers like cheap Termi libbies with Null Zone. Blood Angels need to take advantage of their Furious Charge and pump out the initiative 5 wounds.  My lightning claw termies lead by a chaplain with a priest is truly devastating to just about any thing.  Putting them into a LRC gives them assault grenades which you need to take advantage of your Furious Charge. Put one hammer in the squad for dread busting. If you have them in a Raven, you again will lose the benefit of the Furious Charge if they assault into terrain, and they most likely will.  The raider will also give you something to hide your VanVets behind if your opponent leaves you nothing to Heroic Intervention. In that case I suggest you advance them behind your raider and assault enmasse using the priest from the terminator squad. That squad is armed well. 

Your troops are ok. I prefer assault marines, but tacs are ok. Scouts are not a horrible choice for the cost. Though I would put a fist and combi melta on the SGT to give you more flexible options. Now you can flank them and pop tanks from behind.  

Speeders are hit or miss.  I've written books about them, so I won't get to involved here, mostly they require smart tactics and practice to use well.  Here is an old article. 

Devs are effective and surprisingly good at killing troops.  Deep strike hammernators? Here are 20 hits with frag missiles. Make those saves.  Even if you only get 10 wounds that should be one or two dead.  

Most important here is to keep in mind your goals. If you are looking to have fun at a LGS make sure you go with that mind set. Joke, play, chat, make the social experience the point, not the game.  If you are looking to prep for a tournament at the LGS, be sure your opponent knows that and is ready before you start the game.  I get in so few games at the LGS that all of them are prep games for my GT face beating lists. When I go I look for opponents and make it clear to them that I will be trying to table them.  That slims down the guys willing to play punching bag pretty considerably, but it is better than strolling up to a table against some Tau army played by a noob with no idea how to play them and running him out of the game.  Be clear and upfront.

More List Help:

hey jawa here is the list you told me to email you to have you give tips on
 
2000 point blood angel list
Commander Dante
Librarian jump-pack infernus pistol epostolary
(unleashed rage/shield of sanguinius)
Sanguinary Guard banner,P fist, infernus pistol
Sanguinary priest x2 power sword jump pack
furioso dreadnought H Flamer, talons and Extra Armor
assault squad(10man)x2 flamer, meltagun, powerfist
vanguard vet, sergeant powerfist stormshield, LCx2 melta bombs, LC stormshield, LC stormshield, thunderhammer stormshield
stormraven extra armor, assault cannon, multimelta

Ok, I'm guessing on your intentions here.  Dante with priest and Sanguard. Assault squad with priest and libby. Vets in Raven? If this is the case, you will struggle to win vs most other 2k armies.  Dante will deep strike and pop a transport then you will lose most if not all of the squad to massed dakka and high AP weapons. If the raven makes it across the table, the vets will not do all that well in combat. Most of them are going last. Against most squads you will probably take at least light losses, and in some cases lose them outright before they even get to do damage. Refer to my answer above. Blood Angels need to take advantage of Furious Charge. Switch the fists to Power Weapons. A 5 man squad with 3 initiative 1 weapons is bait. The stormshields make them expensive bait.  

You also have no survivable troops. You are going to be dropping your Sanguard to their deaths every game. You are the going to be forced to use your assault squad to be your secondary kill squad, and lets face it, they are not that good compared to other armies dedicated assault troops.  That leaves you with no troops to hold objectives, forcing you to go for the massacre every time with an army that will have a hard time doing that.  Oh wait, I just saw that you have 2 assault squads.You need something that holds the line, so switch one to a tactical squad in a rhino with something that can reach out and touch like a lascannon.  Expect to lose just as many games as you win if not more!  


Quick advice. Your list relies too much on good luck and terrain to win. Sanguard are a poor choice as a troops choice since they will die. I would drop them for another large assault squad, and drop the vets for an honor guard.  Attach Dante to the HG in the raven. Get a transport on the table to provide at least some mobile cover for those circumstances where there is none, and march across the table. That will improve your chances. However many guys you have, expect to get less than half of them into combat.  If you don't think you can take out an entire army with half of your forces, than rethink what you are playing! :)

Thats it for all folks.

Jawaballs

12 comments:

Balian said...

Thanks for posting my list - the hammertime list. My goal with this list is to obviously have fun LGS but Id like to use it GT too. I plan on switching my hammertime to like what you said, 4 LC: 1 TH/CC. That's not a bad idea with the VGV rolling behind the LRC, I just might have to do that. Now I was confused with the SGT with fist and combi melta, did you say give it to the scouts or a tact squad?

I've had a lot of success with the speeders, flanking them and popping rhinos or devilfishes. So those are definately staying in.

If I drop the raven and add a LRC, should I keep the furioso? Drop the furioso and use the points to upgrade my priest to a TDA?

Thanks again for your input.

Jawaballs said...

Furioso works running behind the land raider. Keep him. Give the scouts the fist. The flanking scout fist and combi melta is dangerous and really makes your opponent get away from his well laid plans, and that alone makes them worth their points.

matrent89 said...

Hey jawa sorry about not listing a plan for my army, goal was to deep strike and assault with the vets to try and take out his most dangerous shooting squad, the Libby priest and Dante with the sang guard, Libby gives a cover save and rerolls to hit, priest for charge feel no pain bubble, use the raven to shove the dread in their face and pop tanks, assault squads where taken mainly to tie into the the theme of reserving everything

Kevinmcd28 said...

Hmmm well my thoughts on the second email is play a more themed army for fun but if you want to play in tournies then buy the options that will make it competitive. Im lucky to have a few different armies so I play my khorne berserker chaos on down time but if im tuning up for a tournie I run my tournament Dark Eldar. And if your playing a specialized marine army do what they do best and is unique for them, like running the assault marines and not tacts. I do like your death star of 4 LC's and 1 hammer terminators...but I like them more when my agoniser put two or three wounds on them and seeing a terminator not get a 3+ but a 5+ is always fun.....but yes the chaplain/priest/lightning claw thing is very beast.

ServvsUmbrarum said...

This is the first I've ever heard anyone mention scouts for BA. Any other uses for them and are they competitive at all or is the roll too chaotic to rely on?

Jawaballs said...

The scouts are an effective unit. If they have a missile launcher they can still be effective if they come on the wrong side of the table. The melta and fist make them great at taking out those pesky tanks tearing your ass up from behind. But again, the best use of the scout is in messing up your opponent's plans. I used them when the new book came out and I liked them, I just have not had the chance to get them back into my list.

ServvsUmbrarum said...

On a side note I'm kind of peeved about her Battle Force. We basically get the rhino for free but I would have rather 2 Assault Squads, a Death Company and a Razorback...specifically the razorback. Its so funny how the Razorback is 2$ more than the rhino and people sell those bits for like 15$ on Ebay.

brotherbalian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
brotherbalian said...

@ServvsUmbrarum
Its because people will buy them...supply and demand.

My scouts ALWAYS mess up someone's plans. Now if I was thinking of running 2 scouts, one as laid out above and the second with bolters and the Sgt with the fist and melta. That is a little more mobile than the heavy 1 weapons, especially with the out flanking. One thing I do notice is, my scouts are NEVER fired upon. HUGE advantage when my pinning and blowing up things. My opponent is usually too worried about my termies or the furioso. So I usually have my snipers/missile do what they do best: sit back and pin troops and blow up light armour; obj camp too.

@Kevincd28
My reason for not running RAS is because if you play a game with objectives, I dont like camping them. I could get more shots with a tact squad and bigger gun options. I leave the assaulting to the big boys, Termies and VGV. Now if I do more tournies(which I plan on doing in the very near future)I might drop one tact and add a full RAS.

ServvsUmbrarum said...

Oh, I understand brotherbalian it can be frustrating that is all. Mainly because until now I've been buying vehicles and such at impulse "hey I dont have a ______ I want one" and realize its not what I want to play with after I've painted it. Right now I've several Rhino chasis and no Las / Plas tops for them. Thankfully my group lets me play with the weapons sitting on top and 'represented' but not attached.

Kevinmcd28 said...

Well I was stating that from a fun as well as competitive standpoint. The reasoning from running a Tact sqaud in a rhino is always legit as it works. Its just an advantage for bA that they are fast and have troos assault squads

redeye said...

Starting a game with 2 noobies is also a slow curve as eventually when you branch out to regulars.. Its a different playing field..

Preferable it good to start with a Vet who patient enough to actually sit though with you. Since they know the ins and out so they can also give good advice.

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