Batrep: Conflict GT game two. BA vs Kroot Mercs???

So I waited at my table, about 20 minutes, while every one else started playing. Then my opponent arrived. After a quick introduction, he started pulling kroot after kroot out of his transport. I thought it was cool, but was waiting for his Fire Warriors and other fish heads. Instead, more and more kroot. Noticing my puzzled look, he started to explain that he was playing the "Chapter approved" Kroot merc codex. As far as I knew, this was not a legal army in this tournament... Oh well.

I had never experienced the army before. And obviously, neither had this guy. It was also quickly obvious that he had probably never played a game of 5th edition. Or at least not on a tournament level. Definitely not against some one who wanted to go to Vegas, and absolutely definitely not against my Blood Angels.

With the lurking image that is now famous of a table lined with kroot on the edges and an undeployed tray of White Scars bikers on the table, and one guy posing in victory while the other looks in a rule book with the judge... I started the game with apprehension. Normally, with this sort of army I would have just reserved every thing. But I was not sure if this guy was sly enough to spread his stuff out on the table edge and block me from entering. I did not want to take the chance. He looked like he had something up his sleeve!

So I deployed a Predator, two bikes, and my two rhinos with ten man squads inside them. I could not take the chance that he would assault a combat squad with 40 kroot.

The game would come down to alpha strike assault for the kroot. I knew he was going to come for me, and he knew that if he could wipe out my boys on the table, that I could not bring down pods or other reserves. So I used the terrain, and my bikes and DC to protect my predator and rhinos as best as possible and waited for him to deploy.

Then he started infiltrating.

By the rules, you can infiltrate within 12" if NONE of my models have LoS. If any of my models can see the unit that is infiltrating... his closest distance was 18". Well, infiltration took, and I kid you not, well over an hour. He was shocked that terrain pieces do not block LoS. He tried and tried to get his models within 12". One of the terrain pieces did actually block LoS. So he tried to hide a whole squad behind it. It was like an oil tank looking thing.. made from a coffee can. We figuerd out where 12" would be and he proceeded to place his models while I sat at model height testing if I could see any of them. So place he did. And managed to get them all behind the can... some how. When he was done, about 20 minutes later, I finaly got up to look at his work... and found a pile of kroot about 3" high, balanced like a barrel full of monkeys with less then half of their bases actually on the ground.

For the love of god.

Finally, every thing was infiltrated. Then the wargear issue started. What squad had what? How does it work? All of his models looked the same and had no squad markings. Basicly it was a mob of kroot and he was just taking models from the mob and saying these guys area squad. I asked if his commander lost whatever powers he may have had by joining a squad. Some HQ grant squads powers, some lose them if the squad does not have them. He had no answer for me. He did proclaim that his entire army had Fleet. Skeptical, I asked him to show me where it says that. He could not.

In discussion with another player after, it seems that they do indeed? Are kroot beasts? Do all beasts get fleet? I still dont know, but this kid (not really a kid.. maybe early 20s)could not show me any rule stating that they do, except for one squad. Sorry, no fleet. So then I busted out his list and began scrutinizing each squad and asking him to show me the wargear, and explain what it does... It was like pulling teeth. Torture.

Meanwhile, the guys next to me are half way through turn two. We are still going over army lists.

Ok, now time for the game to start.

Kroot Mercs: God knows what he had. He had a sniper kroot squad, lots of carnivores, some dogs with some boss guys and some flying kroot vultures.

Turn 1:

I tried to seize and end this before it started. I failed. Then he remembered that Kroot had a +1 cover in woods. (we had decided that the terrain was all rubble before hand.) Some of the terrain had little tiny trees on them, maybe two, maybe one... so he wanted them all to be woods. Fine. Have your woods. Fir trees would only intensify the flames when my pods finally came down.

So he goes. He started with his sniper squad. After announcing that snipers hit on 2+, he rolls 10 dice and gets 10 hits. I had to show him the new sniper rules. 2 hits.

He declares that Kroot get to ignore all cover. (He had vultures deployed in rubbble, with no trees.) Another 20 of minutes of searching through his codex reveals, from what I could find, kroot ignore terrain only if it is woods. I allow him to redeploy his vultures to get them out of the rubble.

So he had to destroy every thing I had on the table. One squad of vultures assaulted my Death Company models that were standing in front of a rhino. He had some calvalry that made it in and assaulted my predator and exploded it, killing half of his calvalry in the process. He assaulted and exploded one of my rhinos, killing another dozen or so Kroot. It was going poorly for me! He assaulted and killed both of my bikes.

Half of what I deployed was now dead and I still had to get through another of his assault phases before my reserves would come down. Needless to say, I started to sweat.

But then it ended, and I saw that I would be able to get a rhino away from the carnage.

So on my turn, I manage to roll a 6 on Over Charged Engines for the rhino, and tank shock the crap out of a vulture squad. They made their leadership and moved, but I got the Rhino away from danger.

My tactical squad that got exploded out of their rhino lined up the kroot for a charge. First I opened fire with every thing I had left, and killed a handful, then charged. We had to fist figure out which squad had what wargear... again. He said the squad with 13 vultures had one weapon and the other squad had another... but he had the weapons in the wrong squad. He assaulted and destroyed my rhino with the wrong weapon. The guy that hit it actually had no chance of hurting it. I allowed him to make the change so as not to have to turn back time.

I had to tie up the vultures so they could not go kill my other rhino. It would seem that he would benefit from the weapon switcharoo because now the vulture squad that was in range to get the rhino had the proper weapon... I got his command squad and two vulture squads into close combat, and won! One of the vulture squads was wiped out and the other failed leadership and fell back. But the command squad held and bogged me down so I could not sweep.

My captain killed the calvary.

Turn Two:

I had to survive this round. He had loads of kroot left and I had about 15 marines, a rhino and a captain.

He assaulted and killed my captain with a Str 8 weapon. He also finished off my tactical squad that was in assault. But my marines held. The reserves would come!

Three Pods arrive but my predator lags behind.

It mattered not.

My dreads popped out of their landing craft and ignited their flamers. And kroot burned. They thought they were safe in the woods. They were not. I burned down those trees and the filfthy rats hiding inside them. My rhino that was hiding, pulled back into a safer position. And that was all I could do! I breathed a hearty sigh though. I had killed two thirds of the remaining kroot.

Turn Three:
His vultures regrouped and were coming for my rhino, but they could not reach it this turn. He assaulted and killed a dread with an eviscerator, but that would be the last kill for him.

My other two dreads layed down more flame, killing most of the remaining kroot. I moved up my rhino, unloaded my tactical, and rapid fired on his vultures, killing all but 2 or three. The dreads assaulted and squished a load of them, including their commander.

Turn Four:
The game would end here. He assaulted my tactical with his remaining vultures, but I beat them down. On my turn I hopped back in my rhino and chilled. My pred came on and mowed down any remaining kroot while the dreads finished their nasty work.

By the end of the turn, all he had left was sniper kroot, and he yielded.

I don't know what the story was, maybe he was just a fill in player because of a drop out, maybe Sanguinius was testing me. At any rate, it took all of my training as a teacher to not explode several times. There were a couple of issues here. First of all, the rules on the tournament website explicitly stated that a thorough knowledge of the rules was required. This was not a noob tournament. I understand that inexperienced players will always be in tournaments and I embrace and encourage them. I am more then happy to explain things to inexperienced players and help them out, but I feel that I should have been paid for giving this player a two hour one on one tutoring session. I had to teach him how to infiltrate, deploy, shoot and assault. I had never seen his codex before, and had a firmer grasp of it's contents.

More importantly, I don't believe that this Kroot list was among the legal codexs available. It is not a legal GW codex is it? It certainly looked nice and it was obvious that he spent a lot of time on it. I can understand a small local tournament... but this GT was posted on the GW website as a qualifier for the GW Nationals. I would have hoped for a little more quality control? Am I off base with this?

After things got figured out, the guy was a fun and gracious opponent. He was not being a jerk at all, and I really felt bad for being impatient with him during his infiltration. Once I realized that he was a 5th ed beginner and casual player, not a wiley vet trying to take advantage of rules confusion in a tournament setting, I relaxed and we had a fun game. He stacked all of his models on top of each other in a pile, because he probably has done that at home with his buds in a casual setting. He was definitely thrown by true Line of Sight.

But at the same time, I am a little bothered by the fact that he tried the same infiltration routine on the next guy he played... Hmmm...

More to Come...



Tim said...

According to the rules posted on the GT website, Army Lists posted in White Dwarf were legal. So it seems he was fine.

Lucas said...

I have this codex.
Kroot carnivores don't have fleet, they get it through the hyperactive numan organ. Plus any unit that could get fleet has to buy it.

The problem is is that the codex is a 4th ed codex and discontinued. Thar's no clarification and the only ones that have it are the older players.

eriochrome said...

Infiltrating armies are a problem in tourney settings mainly from the fact that set up takes longer since you need to measure out the 12/18 inches. Make a SM scout army with Shrike in command and see how long it takes since you can infiltrate 18 then scout move to 12 inches.

I did this as at a local friendly event mainly to use my 40 scout minis but one game only made it to turn 3 due to some combats where no one could break the other.

WookieeGunner said...

Just wanted to be the first on here to congratulate you for coming in Second. That gets you to Vegas, right?

jawaballs said...

Yup, got the email from the organizer today saying that GW would be contacting me. :)

Teeef said...

My son has a Kroot Army based on the WD and it is fun but without a woody terrain very difficult to get a victory with.

Other than the Kroot Gun which is a sucky auto-cannon it requires getting into combat cause you cannot kill anything by shooting at range. And unless you have a shaper council, which can take meltaguns, you have 1 shaper per squad with eviscerator and that is it.

There is a cool upgrade for a shaman that can turn a single piece of terrain into woods. That can be hard on you when the key objective that was in a building suddenly is in woods or that terrain speed bump in front of your troops is no longer a speedbumb but is now kroot-friendly woods.

If I remember though, when fifth edition came out this list was no longer "approved" by GW.

Xzandrate said...

The Kroot list wasn't ever very powerful, most of it's power comes from the unfamiliarity which is why it probably hasn't been banned. If the Tau book gets re-done, expect it to officially disappear, that's what happened with the Feral Ork list. Which is too bad, it was a fun quirkly list

Kevinmcd28 said...

yeah that guy was an obvious 4th edition ressurection, thats what screwed my catachan codex list. Woods wouldnt even have mattered vs the heavy flamer since it ignores terrain and kroot have no armor save and are squishier than grots when shot. I dont like the new sniper rules, the only sniper unit that still gets 2+ that i know of are IG ratlings and thats bc of a BS 5.

Since when have white dwarf dex's been tournament legal?

That list is ligit and would've worked well 2 years ago but with new LOS rules and minimal wooded cover hes screwed. Seems like you got it easy in this torney jawa

jawaballs said...

Well, I admit my first two games were bye. The Kroot game could have gone very badly, but once he failed to wipe me out on turn two it was over.

Things got a lot harder in the next three games. I will get some of that written up tomorrow.

Andrew said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Andrew said...

On behalf of non-crappy Kroot-Merc-Players, I apologize.

Maybe with the next Tau Empire codex, there will be an all-Kroot option. *crosses fingers*

Saab(Greg) said...

OMG, Fritz and I thought you were going to sock that kid. Your expression was soooo "In the Zone".
I got worried cause from where I was playing I couldn't see your models left due to the massive horde of kroot.

Sorry about game 3, I thought you nodded at me like you had won, hence my jeering comment :)

Grats again, and always bet on Red

HuronBH said...

The Kroot Merc list has lots of cool conversion possibilities and when done right can be both a stunning army to see on the table and a fun army to play against.

Sorry you had to go through that.

Anonymous said...

Hi Jawaballs!
Ive got a short question! I havent got the BA Codex, but dont half of your droppods arrive in first turn?


Anonymous said...

Hey Jawaballs!
Ive got a short question. I dont got the BA Codex, but dont arrive half of your Droppods in first turn?

jawaballs said...

Nope, Blood Angels don't have drop pod assault.

Lord Victor said...

Hey Jawa,

Eric from Ordo. Having to play this opponent next, I reiterate how frustrating deployment was. I have a feeling he was bouyed up by his teammates from his local club into thinking he was better off then he really was. He was repeatedly telling me that hills block LOS so perhaps his local has house ruled back to 4th ed. Certainly not ready for a competitive tourny though, I don't believe he even came back on the second day after your and I's games against him.

Congratz again on 2nd place!

jawaballs said...

He was back the second day. But what worries me is the fact that he tried the same shenanigans. After I spent that time educating him, he should have learned. The fact that he tried the same things shows deceit and sneakyness.

Firewasp said...

I think the ruling for all beasts getting fleet is in the rulebook pg 54.

Congratulations on getting through though.

jawaballs said...

hmm, are Kroot beasts? You would think the owner of the army would know those answers!

Firewasp said...

Casting my mind back a few years. I think some of their units do. but not all of them. I'd certainly expect the owner of the army to know. especially in a tournament setting. As I'm just starting out with my tau I can sympathize with someone having to double check a few things. The guys I played last night were relatively new to the hobby. So I took my time and explained everything to them as we were playing. (battle report on my blog if you're interested) but they were interested in learning.
kudos on your patience though.

pissclams said...

hey Jawa i think you should have reserved everything. The biggest difference between your list and that nup who got face palmed in that italian GT was he was running a full biker list that he reserved. Your mech list would have tank shocked his ass off of the table as you came in if he tried to pull that infiltrate gayness.

jawaballs said...

I thought about that after. First of all, I doubt the kid would have thought about it. But, if he did, and if all of my tanks failed to come on... I did not want to take the chance he was playing me.

Legion3000 said...

Jesus Christ Jawa, do you ever stop and listen to yourself? "I should have been paid to teach him 40k". Do you think you are on some saintly mission from god bestowing knowledge on the unwashed masses? So the kid was a noob and didn't speed play as fast as you wanted, oh boo hoo. To me, you're the worst kind of noob. Someone that picks up the game and in less than 3 years thinks they should be charging people to tell them how to play.
I think it says a lot about you that someone at another table could tell you wanted to throttle this kid. I fear for your actual students. Oh and by the way, the word is spelled CAVALRY. Doesn't your computer have spell check or do you know better than the english language too. Cheers

Anonymous said...

lol @ Legion. C'mon, dude, think about it for a second... it was a qualifier tournament, if I understand correctly. Therefore, I think that a certain level of game competence is expected. If a player doesn't have it, they shouldn't be playing in that kind of a tournament. If they do, then they're no better than those twits on American Idol who are shocked and appalled that they couldn't make the cut.

( P.S. Away with comp scores forever! )

jawaballs said...

Legion... where to begin.

First of all, get a life. Name calling and pointing out spelling mistakes? Is that all you got? You forgot to say I was a "stupid head" and put your thumbs in your ears saying "Neener neener.". Well, maybe you did do that... I'd prefer not to see what you are doing in your underwear in front of your computer screen.

But since we are on the topic of spelling mistakes, I have a kettle here... want to call it black? I quickly checked out your masterpiece of a blog, and counted no less then 10 spelling mistakes, punctuation errors and word misuses before my eyes started to bleed and glaze over from the dull content about junk food. There is a difference between its and it's. Using has no E in it. There is one A in appetizing. The list goes on and on. Also, hyphens are your friend. Take a look at your own spell check before pointing out the mistakes of others.

Dude. Spelling mistakes happen. The "Doesn't your computer have spell check" attack is a fail, unless you are perfect. You are not. Go eat a chili dog.

I'm not trying to win a Pulitzer, I'm just writing something in an attempt to entertain. Most of the time, I succeed. I don't claim to be omnipotent, all knowing, or phat. I just call it as I see it, with a little Jawa-twist and a sense of humor.

Oh, and here is a news flash for you. Jawaballs does not actually feel he should have been paid to play 40k in this game. That is what you call dramatic license, artistic license, narrative license, licentia poetica... take your pick. (Thanks wiki) Whatever you call it, I was using dry humor to make an absurd, exaggerated comment and deliver a point. It is a literary device. For all the overly literal dolts out there, I did not really mean it. However, you give me a good idea! I get 80 bucks an hour when I do 1 on 1 standardized test prep tutoring for teenagers. Maybe there is something here...

Any one willing to pay Jawaballs for two hours of 1 on 1 tutoring in 40k? I know I only have three years of experience, but I have a decent resume, and I can probably teach you a thing or two about playing and painting! :)

The kid was not a noob, he was new to 5th ed, but an obviously experienced player. No noob would put that army on the table. I have no problem with him taking time. I do have a problem with him arguing the measurement of every model he puts down after I explained why they were "too close". In other words, he should have known better. He tried to place a squad within 12". I explained, and showed the rule, why he could not. He repeated this with every model he placed thereafter, in every game. That deserves a blog post! It was comical.

Finally, I have to wonder if he actually did not understand, or was just trying to pull a fast one. The next guy he played came to me for advice in dealing with him because despite showing that he learned the proper infiltration procedure to me, he tried the same shenanigans in the next game. I wont stoop so low as to make blatant accusations, but there is nothing wrong with describing the interactions and letting you draw your own conclusions. And what I experienced leaves a lot to question.

Do me a favor. The next time you feel like unleashing some nerd rage, at least take five minutes to formulate your position and check your self.

And what's with the Cheers? You're from Detroit.



pissclams said...

i just lol'd

Jeauf said...

lol I agree with pissclams. Legion when you mess with the best you die like the rest.... And fyi I would pay to be taught anything 40k related by Jawaballs.


BA ftw

jawaballs said...

Hey Jeauf, you got it! 20 bucks will get you a live private hour with ME! Thats right. I will set up a session just for you, and during that time I will show you whatever you want to know, be it painting or tactics. Let me know what you want me to prep ahead of time, and I will set it up and demonstrate how Jawaballs will solve your problem. Assault... reserves... target priority... missions, highlighting, blending, shading hand painting... you name it! I guess that goes for any one! :)

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