I have been a staunch unsupporter for hard boys in the past. I honestly don't like how it brings out the worst in people. Sure, you are in it to win it! No sportsmanship, comp or other BS. Well, the result of those relaxed attitudes are Carnifexs molded as if they are digging up out of the ground with just a head and arms clawing their way out.
Also, the stakes are pretty high. Prizes for hard boys are huge. Big payouts and a rule less atmosphere brings out the power gamers with no conscience who pretty much ruin the game for any one but themselves.
I admit to being a power gamer myself playing cheezy lists, but I am pretty confident that most guys I have ever played in a tournament would say they enjoyed our game. Cheezy list or not.
That brings me to my decision. Is Jawaballs hard? It is certainly time to find out!
Now to build a list. Let me see here... new codex... new points limit... one month to play test... I think I smell a recipe for disaster. But oh well. Lets see.
After consulting Fritz, Danny Internets and Goatboy, I have banged out some details for a list that I was banging around in my head. I won't bother posting up the minute details, but it involves Mephiston, 3 Baals, 3 Vindicators, some dreads and lots of RAZ with Asscannon love.
No shock, really, except for Mephiston! I have definitely focused on the strengths of the new dex with the 3x Baals, vindis and RAZ squads. But I am blowing 250 points on a character who cannot join any units...
Well, when it comes down to it, Mephiston is just rock solid. For the points, I think he is the best HQ in the book, IC or not. He is equipped to handle any thing, and with a little assault squad support, he will be the rock that my list needs.
I will be playing an 1850 version of this list tonight. So I look to see big things from Mephiston! Expect a batrep this week. My camera is dead, but I will write it up.
Now the question is fellow Sons of Sanguinius... What are you playing for Hard Boys? Who has had some time to playtest? JB is a little behind the curve here. :)
Jawaballs
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22 comments:
Played with the Codex for the first time last night. Baal Predators are simply awesome! Scout move into position and wreck units with concentrated fire on turn 1. Jump pack troops drop on objectives while dreads pummel the enemy in CC. Its an amazing codex that is for sure. There are so many different styles to play with. You can go mech and make a fast and brutal armored spearhead, you can go for the jump pack assault with san. priests actually making jump pack troops viable or you can go for something more traditional. All in all, Blood Angels are now one of the best armies out there. 'Ard Boyz should be no sweat.
As an aside, I have never considered your lists cheesy.
And I have no experience with 'Ard Boyz so . . .
Honestly, I just can't get excited about Ard Boyz this year. Last year I was stoked I made semis, but somehow the appeal of tossing 2500pts on the table has been lost.
Maybe I've come to realize that 40k is a very different game at that point level, and the "alpha strike" can dictate the outcome of the game all on top of turn 1. It's just something I don't enjoy anymore.
On the other hand, I hate comp in 40K with a passion, and I pretty much hate sportsmanship scores too, so it's nice to see another event without them. (For the record I've lost 2 sportsmanship pts in all the tourneys I've played in combined, I just think it enables a sore-loser to get their "revenge" and causes players to be afraid to question a rule in fear they're going to lose a sportmanship point)
At this time, I probably won't be playing
I played a 2000 points-per-person Apocalypse game the day the Codex came out, and the BA did well, even for my thrown-together list. One Baal killed 3 Rokkit buggies in 3 turns (because they were seperate units), the other didn't do so well but the only target they had was a Carnifex. The Fast Vindicator scared people, too.
I was able to drop 2 Dreadnoughts (one a Librarian) which my oppnents had to concentrate on, and a good-sized (15-strong) DC with 5 power fists, Lemartes, a Sang Priest, a jump-packing Librarian, and Dante. They didn't kill the Stompa, but they made it stay put to deal with Dante's flying circus. The DC with rerolls to hit and wound (with Lemartes) were just scary, and the Stompa just kept pouring fire into the unit (a giga-shoota, the Eye of Mork, lots of other things)and only 1 or 2 would die a turn.
Personally, I think I'll be playing my 1850 list (5 RAZ, 2 Baals, 2 AC/Las Preds, a Vindicator, 2 Librarians) with some goodies added... probably some 10-man Assault squads with 2 meltas, a power weapon or power fist, and a jumping Sang Priest. I think I can get at least 2 in there for 750 points.
Mephistion in a deep-striking Land Raider would be scary.
I was (and am) excited about the Furioso Librarians, because such a mobile (jump 12") S8 Ap1 lance (even with a variable range) is something for everyone to worry about... but I think that jump packing squishy Librarians with the Blood Lance and the S10 power is pretty nice for half the price of a Land Raider.
I had one kill a Ork Mega Dread by himself, and all he had was his normal power weapon... no power fist. The funny thing is that putting a jump pack on a Librarian and giving him those two powers gives him pretty much the same ability as a Furiso Librarian with the Wings of Sanguinius and The Blood Lance... they both can shoot a lance, they can both use S10 power weapon attacks, they both jump and can run if need be. Of course, the Dread has AV13 and can't be insta-killed. But a power-armor Librarian fits in a Razorback.
A REALLY annoying Apocalypse idea - 24 jump-packing Librarians. 12 come down on Turn 2 and nuke everything in sight with the Blood Lance, and 12 more down on Turn 3. Whatever is left alive from the first wave then charges whatever they didn't kill. Whew. What a mess.
In any case, a standard force-org can have 5 Librarians (2 HQ, 3 Elite - Librarian Dreads). That's a lot of Blood Lances.
If I get the chance to play, I am going to play an all jump-pack army. A scaling up of the version I sent you a week ago or so. 2 libbies, 2 priests, RAS squads with meltas, and Vangaurd vets dto drop assault. I am way stoked about the army. I need to start getting games in with it ASAP though to figure out the nuances of how it plays.
I've no experience with ard boyz either, and don't expect much from playing, but it should be a good time I think.
To keep on blathering... I'm not worried about alpha strikes. With 9 lascannons (5 on my Razorbacks, 4 on Predators), I can move on from Reserve and still get my alpha strike in, even if they come in piecemeal. Even better, since the lascannons have such huge range, they can still hit things just as they come on.
Bug swarms will still be a problem, though. There's my dilemma - what do I think I'll see more? Lots of armor/high T models, or lots of Outflanking bugs? I think I'll have to kill more tanks, actually. Not only that, but the TL Assault Cannon turret bit alone costs more than the sprue that can give you a TL Las turret and 2 lascannon sponsons.
I've been blogging a fair bit about BA the last couple days (would appreciate your opinion on the lists, since I haven't played BA since Codex:Angels of Death - lol) and have come to the conclusion that an all-JP army is probably the strongest theme BA can do...which sadly leaves no place for Mephiston. Of cvourse, in Ard Boyz, you can easily run Mephiston and 3 Libby Furiosos, which would be some strikeforce.
There are no cheesy lists. Just codex legal lists. You play against your opponent, not his or her list per se. If you don't like who you are playing or the way he/she acts, does the list really make any difference at all?
Having gotten my hands on my own copy of the Blood Angel codex I can just say, nice. Such a very very nice codex. Better devastators, Assault Marines as troops (and a 35 point rebate for transports, it's almost silly!), awesome elites, etc. Makes the vanilla marines sad sad little marines.
Getting feel no pain and furious charge from the chaplin-like guys (name forgotten) are just fantastic. Are you including three of them in the RAS squads? Sure ups the cost a bit but makes them much more scary. And in a 6" radius as well!
Mephiston is *the* Space Marine. A freaking *master* of all trades. Scary scary.
Keeping away from the very expensive Elites sounds like a sensible strategy. Sure they look cool, sure they strike hard, but they do cost a bit.
Look forward to your playtesting :)
played a game with the new dex last week vs nids and guard, vas suad deep striking with heroic intervention with a sag preist nearby is brutal as are furiosos with blood talons, i killed a tervigon after it charged me in one turn. it fluffed its attacks. librarians feel the hurt from shadow of the warp nid power. sag preist are awesome i took three 1 with the vanguard 1 with are now non-useless th/ss and one with a RAS. after play BA for 6 years we finally have a excellent dex :)
"Is Jawaballs hard? It is certainly time to find out!"
Out of a warhammer 40K context this quote is not for readers under 18!
Well, he does have a child, so we know it happens. Oh, sorry.
What I'd like to know from everyone here is do Vanguard Vets get "Decent of Angels" special rule? It isn't in their profile, but there are multiple descriptions that say "every model with a jump packs has the Decent of Angels special rule". Is it not in their profile because you need to equip them with jump packs? I'd love to hear how others will play this.
it is not in their rule because their jump packs are bought as upgrades, same as honor guard. If you read page 62 of the Codex it tells you that any blood angel with a jump pack has descent of angels.
let me know how it goes with the list Chris. Thomas tossed it by me and I don't know how I feel about it . I might drop it to two razorback with twin linked las cannons and go for more jump troops on the board.
I so convinced thomas that Mephiston was the win too if run right.
Got a 1850 game in tonight vs a mediocre guard list. One thing can be said about BA, you will be all over your opponent. I managed to get Mephiston into assault turn 1, and it was pretty much over from there. Batrep to follow.
hmm, I have been playing my spacewolves army and have been winning all my games in the past little while. I am not certain as if I should enter AB though because I doubt that my list is competitive enough. I am running Logan and Arjac with a squad of termie bodyguards and that is pretty expensive by itself. So yea I just doubt that my list is good enough as I can just think in my mind of the crazy armies people are going to be playing... But what the hell, only time will tell. Also good luck to you Jawaballs and your list and i'd like to play you sometime. I know someone at my locals that said he played you a long time ago so yea I think it would be fun haha.
I never play such big games as I enjoy smaller ones much more. When I think ´ard boys, there are a lot of things that come to my mind. First of all you will need some kind of psychic defense. With Blood Angels, you have 3 ways to get a psychic hood, Mephiston, a Librain and the Furioso Librain Dreadnought. Mephiston would be a very risky choise as he is very expensive and can be killed easily by long range shooting. He is a cc monster but the lack of an inv save hurts as much as surpressing his psychic powers. The bigger the armies are, the more fragile he get´s. I will run him in a 750 points campagne soon and I´m sure he will be just great, but at ´ard boys he will get shot for sure...
To go all mech seems the way to go. IG will be very common and the release of the new BA dex got these guys to reconsinder there army lists. Deepstrike defensive (Mystics, ...) will be very common I fear, so lots of tanks will be the way to go for ´ard boys...
Nagamo,
I agree that there are going to be a lot of Mystics attached to Guard units (of course, the lists are technically Inquisitor lists with attached Guard), so Deep Striking jump packers may run into some problems.
I dunno, Mephistons pretty solid, cash in and they shall know no fear for fearless and furious charge on a roll of 3 or more on any blood angels unit. 3 baals and a vindys is a little overkill, but hey, whatever works. What are you gonna do for anti-vehicle stuff?
Mephiston is not the one who grants the increased chance for red thirst, that is Astorath. I think I am going to go with 2 auto cannon/las preds and one vindi. For anti tank I have 2 preds with las cannons and auto cannons, a TL las cannon razorback, two meltas in razorbacks, and four twin linked assault cannons, all of which are as good as TL Lascannons at popping tanks. There is plenty of good tank killing punch! Plus Mephiston assaulting with STR 10 and my assault squads assaulting with STR 5 most of the time. And that is only at 1850. When going up to 2500 a couple dreads will beef up my strength!
Honestly JB I think your better off with more infantry over dreads.
Deck em out with some MG's and Power Weapons and you'll be doing just as much damage.
I mean that scout squad assaulted with furious charge and murdered a unit of 10 CSM's.
Dreads are just too fragile in this game now.
Anything under armor 13 that isn't fast is a sitting duck with the insane amounts of fire power out there.
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