Here is something for all you list crunchers! I recently received this novel of an email and thought I would kick it out to all you who love working on lists.
Hi,
I am playing a few 2k points against mostly vanilla marines, (they like lots of named characters, drop podded sterngaurd
with combi plasma/meltas). I am running through a few list variations, trying to incorporate the deathstar approach... any help
would be great... I have a few weeks to work on it, but would like a fresh set of eyes... Any feedback about which list you like best
would be helpful...
List 1
HQ: Reclusiarch (1#, 165 pts)
1 Reclusiarch, 0 pts
1 ...in Terminator Armour, 165 pts = (base cost 160 + Combi-Meltagun 5)
HQ: Librarian (1#, 125 pts)
1 Librarian, 0 pts
1 ...in Terminator Armour, (might of heros, shield of sang.)
Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (10#, 435 pts)
2 Terminator with Lightning Claws
7 Terminator with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
1 Sergeant, Lightning Claws
Elite: Sanguinary Priest (3#, 245 pts)
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour, Jump Pack
2 Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armour
Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 235 pts)
7 Assault Squad
2 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant, Power Fist
Troops: Assault Squad (11#, 250 pts)
7 Assault Squad
2 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant, Power Fist x1
1 Rhino,
Fast Attack: Baal Predator (1#, 145 pts)
1 Baal Predator Heavy Bolter
Heavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 200 pts)
1 Stormraven Gunship, 200 pts (TL multimelta, TL auto canon)
Heavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 200 pts)
1 Stormraven Gunship, 200 pts (TL multimelta, TL laser)
The idea is to combat squad the termies, giving each group a HQ and a terminator Sang. Priest;
these are each placed into a stormraven. The troops follow behind to assist assaults and claim objectives.
LIST # 2
2000 Pts - Blood Angels Roster
HQ: Librarian (1#, 125 pts)
1 ...in Terminator Armour (might of heros, shield of sang.)
: Land Raider Crusader (1#, 260 pts)
1 Land Raider Crusader, Multi-Melta
: Grey Knight Hero (6#, 425 pts)
1 Grand Master [OM], Psycannon Bolts
5 GK Terminator retinue(s) [OM], Incinerator
Elite: Sanguinary Priest (3#, 235 pts)
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour Jump Pack
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour Jump Pack
1 Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armour
Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 235 pts)
7 Assault Squad
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant Power Fist
Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 225 pts)
7 Assault Squad
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun,
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun,
1 Sergeant Power Weapon
Troops: Assault Squad (11#, 250 pts) (jump packs removed)
7 Assault Squad
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun,
1 Assault Marine with Meltagun,
1 Sergeant Power Fist
1 Rhino
Fast Attack: Attack Bikes (2#, 100 pts)
2 attack bikes with multimeltas
Fast Attack: Baal Predator (1#, 145 pts)
1 Baal Predator, Heavy Bolter
LIST 3:
Total Roster Cost: 2000
HQ: Reclusiarch (1#, 165 pts)
1 Reclusiarch, 0 pts
1 ...in Terminator Armour, Combi-Meltagun
HQ: Librarian (1#, 125 pts)
1 Librarian, 0 pts
1 ...in Terminator Armour, (might of heros, shield of sang.)
Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (10#, 435 pts)
2 Terminator with Lightning Claws
7 Terminator with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
1 Sergeant, Lightning Claws
Elite: Sanguinary Priest (3#, 245 pts)
1 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour, Jump Pack
2 Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armour
Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 235 pts)
7 Assault Squad
2 Assault Marine with Meltagun
1 Sergeant, Power Fist
Death Company (395)
5 Death Co, 1 power fist, 2 power swords in
1 Land Raider Redeemer
Heavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 200 pts)
1 Stormraven Gunship, 200 pts (TL multimelta, TL auto canon)
Heavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 200 pts)
1 Stormraven Gunship, 200 pts (TL multimelta, TL laser)
LIST 4
1998 Pts - Blood Angels Roster
HQ: Librarian (1#, 125 pts)
1 Librarian; Shield of Sanguinius; Unleash Rage; in Terminator Armour
Elite: Terminator Assault Squad (6#, 470 pts)
4 Terminator with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
1 Sergeant (Lightning Claws (pair))
1 Land Raider Redeemer; Multi-Melta; 2x Flamestorm Cannons; Twin Linked Assault Cannon
Troops: Death Company (6#, 405 pts)
1 Lemartes
2 Death Company Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon
1 Death Company Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol; Chainsword
2 Death Company Jump Pack; Power Fist
Troops: Death Company Dreadnought (1#, 125 pts)
1 Death Company Dreadnought, Blood Talon with Meltagun; Blood Talon with Storm Bolter
Troops: Assault Squad (7#, 163 pts)
4 Assault Squad
1 Assault with Flamer
1 Sergeant Melta Bombs, powersword
1 Razorback with TL Heavy Bolter
Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 180 pts)
4 Assault Squad
1 Sergeant with powerfist
1 Razorback, Lascannon and TL Plasmagun
Troops: Assault Squad (6#, 180 pts)
4 Assault Squad
1 Sergeant with powerfist
1 Razorback, Lascannon and TL Plasmagun
Heavy Support: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 200 pts)
1 Stormraven Gunship, Twin Linked Assault Cannon; Twin Linked MultiMelta (Death Co and Dread in raven)
Heavy Support: Vindicator (1#, 150 pts)
1 Vindicator, Dozer Blade
Thank you for your time,
Bryan Edward Kentner, DPM
Have at it guys! I will chime in with my own input once I have digested it all. :)
Jawaballs
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8 comments:
I am not the blood angels expert by any stretch of the imagination, however, it seems like using a "deathstar" approach to counter podding kantor marines, seems counter intuitive. Giving sternguard big, juicy vehicle targets such as stormravens or land raiders is a bad idea. Apart from their special weapons, ammo, and combi-weapons, sternguard are just tactical marines and will, therefore die to a cheap assault squad with a power weapon/powerfist. Now if you demand "deathstar" list, I would suggest going as cheap as possible. If you are going with Terminators, grab 4THSS, 1 lightening claw, and a priest in Terminator armor, and call it a day. Two of these units will be massively difficult for a sternguard army to kill. If you want death company, grab 9 of them without jump packs, and give them a couple of fists. These units wont do much after the initial assault due to rage. Because of this jumpacks are a complete waste.
The first commenter gives good food for though so I won't bother re-stating it. Of the lists posted, I think the fourth is the best. It has decent armor saturation and the units are fun, as Xaereth says, BA aren't good at hybrid.
The first list isn't even valid, the birds only carry 12 and he is planning on putting five termies, an HQ, and a priest in each one. If he liked that list, I would put the librarians with the assault squads and the priests with the termies. It splits up the value of the targets and makes them all dangerous.
#2 is a bad choice because the new book is out soon, and will invalidate a fairly pricey (real dollars) portion of your list. If you already have the models, then no big deal I guess.
#2 is the only list with decent numbers of scoring units / models. The rest are essentialy playing for a draw against almost any respectable opponent.
Urban, At first I thought you had made a mistake, but then realized that both the HQ and the SP were in terminator armor, if he just dropped those upgrades, then he would be good to go.
My first thoughts on this are about the librarians. BA libbys are awesome, so good choice on picking them up. However, I must say I really dislike the powers you are using. In my opinion, Shield of Sanguinius is a horrible power (though granted it essentially works as an invul save, but its only 5+... cover is much better).
Another power you chose, Might of Heroes, is ok, but if you use it, I would prefer to use it for a furioso libby, as they get a lot from it.
The next power you picked was Unleash Rage. Hands down my favorite power, as it makes your attacks ridiculous.
Other powers I like: Sanguine Sword (Strength 10!), Fear of the Darkness (only works on models that AREN'T fearless... obviously), and the Blood Lance (VERY controversial, but, it IS "lance" type and AP1).
i like list #4 but i would drop the transports and keep the packs and drop the termies. so make the list look more like this.
HQ
2x JP libbys with shield/sword and rage(a must have for a libby)
Troops
3x 5 RAS with packs 2 IP's MB and PW
5 Snipers with cammo cloaks
5 DC with packs 3 PW's and PF
Lemmy :D
F/A
1 MM/HB speeder (had 70 points to throw in)
Elite
2x Sang Priest with pack IP and PS
Heavy
2x Vindis with armor
Storm Raven with armor (whatever free loadout you prefer)
The DC get thrown in the SR and flown to whatever you want killed other than that its pretty self explanitory.
As someone who not only plays blood angels but deathstars of all sorts I would like to comment on these lists. Having played 15 DC in the redeemer with a Reclusiarch, totally loaded( SS, LC, Banner ) Honor Guard with Dante and a chaplain and recently Lemartes with 10 walking DC and a dreadnought in a stormraven most deathstars are NOT the answer to anything but similar lists. You know what they say about all your eggs in one basket.... I suggest beefing up your heavy to 8 to 12 missile launchers. 2 or 3 teams of las/plas Razorback assault teams for defensive objectives. Load up some rhinos with a Libby, priest a melta and then a power weapon or two(priest & sarge). Have a defensive priest for your devastators(one in a razorback). Couple a baals and you've got the meat of what makes BA successful.
Agreed with Oadius. You are suffering from too many eggs in one basket syndrome. You lose one of those SR in the first turn with the termies in them to one of the 12 autocannon shots from a guard army and you are in serious trouble, not too mention everything else that will be coming your way.
Now Deathstars can be fun, and I have run a few in my day, but they just dont compete as well, unless you run up against a person who doesn't know what to do with them. I would suggest broadening your horizons and looking at other possible options. The ones suggested are terrific.
If you want to stick with the Deathstar theme then i would suggest Land Raiders + Termies + chaplain + Libby. You will crush face in assault and the SS will make them more survivable after you leave your egg basket. But you have to make multiple assaults to really make them worth your points.
Also mephiston may be worth a look . . .
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