So I have decided on my first shot at a competitive list. This is by no means definitive, but I'm not worried, for every model will have use in later army builds and this will make a good core for the new Blood Angels era. 1850 points.
Librarian 100
Sanguinary Priest 50
LC 15
Corbulo 105
RAZ 100
PF 25
Melta 10
Hand Flamer 10
Razor 20
TL AssCan 35
RAZ 100
PF 25
Melta 10
Razor 20
TL AssCan 35
RAZ 100
PW 15
Melta 10
Razor 20
TL AssCan 35
RAZ 100
PW 15
Melta 10
Razor 20
TL AssCan 35
Baal Predator 115
Heavy bolters 30
Baal Predator 115
Heavy Flamers 25
Baal Predator 115
Heavy Flamers 25
Predator 70
Lascannons 65
Predator 70
Lascannons 65
Predator 70
Lasccannons 65
I know, most dudes have been posting up their lists with razors. But jesus! How could you not? It has always been my position that the only reason why I was not taking them in my old mech list was that they were not fast. Now they are and I can take Ass Cannons! It took me about .2 seconds to make the call and order up a pile of them.
Notice how I went without extra armor on my tanks! I figured I have so much redundancy that 2 or 3 of my vehicles being stunned at any given time won't hurt that much.
I went with the auto cannon/Las preds over vindicators because in my experience, they are actually much more effective vs troops, and when it comes to popping transports or combating Valkries, they are boss. I'm no math man, but I think if I averaged out 100 shots of a Vindicator vs a Chimera, and a ACL pred, the ACL pred will win. But the same goes for clustered troops! In a recent game when I put my Vindi back in the list, it just kept missing. I had a whole squad of Tsons lined up for 3 rounds, and I think I managed to kill one or two with the vindi. Scatter and an opponent who knows what he is doing minimizes the effectiveness of the pieplate. You may catch more boys under it with a dead on shot, but I am interested in seeing how the two would play out. Do I smell a future post?
Tactics? Later. For now, bask in the glory that is the Blood Angels. This is a list I have been dreaming about, and can finally put it on the table!
More to come...
Jawaballs
Showcase: Cadian Rogal Dorn Battle Tank
21 hours ago
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26 comments:
Not to sound like an idiot, but what does the R in RAS stand for (Razorback?)? I've easily found out it meant Assault Squad, but I'm not so sure about he R. Sorry for the "noob" question.
RAZ = Razorback Assault Squad and GOD I love em
I see you have stepped back a moment from the dreadnought in drop pods and attack bikes??? I hope to see them in your future list again!
Also, the fact you can take sternguard with combi plasmas peak any interest of yours?
Lastly, why 5 man squads and not 6 man (I assume the lib, Sang P and Corbs each jump in with a ras)?
This looks like a good start to an Alpha list. It has a lot of mobility and fire power! Once you get a chance to play a few games I would be interested in seeing how you would tweak it.
I love getting them near a FNP, FC bubble. Then your 5 guys are 12 attacks + 4 PWeapon attacks @ Ini 5... Which means less attack back at them, followed by FNP. These makes these 5 guys a nightmare...
here's my list:
Librarian x2 200
Blood Lance
Shield of Sanginius
5 Assault Marines x6 990
Flamer
Razorback
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades
Baal Predator x3 360
TL Assault Cannon
Dozer Blades
Vindicator x3 450
Dozer Blades
I'm going with the vindicators, not because of the damage output, but because I can move 12" and still fire to full effect, while the pred is limited to 6". I wan't the whole army to be moving as fast a possible, almost playing like eldar, with a front line of amour 13 vehicles getting cover from shield, and the razorbacks behind. I'll let you know how the vindicator does after a few games, if you'd like.
Hey Jawa,
Where exactly do you order Assault cannons? Sorry I know the answer to this may be obvious for you.
Looks pretty similar to my 1.0 new dex list and I´m sure, it will be solid on the table. Nethertheless, I think there is more to get out of the possibilities offered by a tactical point of view. I really need the codex in front of me as soon as possible to go one step further and mix in some tricky elements to this hard AV13 core. First of I was very excited about the small RAS with Razorbacks and I will run 2 for sure as a substitute for Tactical Marines, but I fear that we will need bigger squads at the front. One 10 man RAS with dual special weapons in a Rhino with a Priest nearby will make a great cc unit that can´t be killed that easily.
Guys, I´m totally overexcited by the possibilities! Fast moving tank army or hardhitting, hardtaking inf with jumppacks or etc. Matt Ward has done a great job I think, a strong codex with a lot of variety. I can even see a place for these beautiful Vanguard Veterans...
I havnt thought about where I will get asscannons. Probably going to have to get them from thewarstore from the land raider crusader boxset.
Im not really sure where the R comes from. Maybe it is Regular assault squad vs Veteran assault from the PDF?
I have switched out the S with a Z to indicate they are in a razorback.
10 man squad? You are right, 5 man squads are fragile, but I have been making them work for years. Knowing where and when to committ them is part of my strategy. The priests make them a lot less squishy. But yes, I will playtest some larger squads and see if they work.
Is there a reason besides pointcost why you don´t run an Honour Guard instead of a "normal" Priest? You would still get the 6´´ FNP and FC bubble and really cheap veterans when you take the cost of the Priest into account. By the way, what psychic powers will you take with your libby?
Nagamo that was actually sound reason, but it does not work. For the same cost as an RAZ with PF, Hand flamer and a priest, I am getting an HG equally equipped except with a champion with PW and CS. But I lose a body, PF and a power weapon and gain a combat shield. So, I really I dont think I gain any thing.
RAS + PW Priest on charge:
19 attacks 4PW, 3PF 6 wounds
HG no priest on charge:
20 attacks 4pw 5 wounds, combat shield
A combat shield is not worth the loss of 3 pw shots and a body.
But you do bring up a good point and if you had points to spend to beef up the HG it is worth it to get more options.
I just had a closer look at the dex and you are right. With a similary configuration the RAS + Priest is 5 points cheaper, so no reason to take such an HG over the scoring unit. Both would have a HandFlamer, PF and PW, resulting in 12 normal, 4 PW and 3 PW attacks on the charge (if I´ve done the math right). Nethertheless, I like the new HG and they will be a reasonable choise if there are points to spent. Exchanging the HandFlamer for a Chapter Banner would result in 20p more and 15 normal, 5 PW and 4 PF attacks on the charge. Add some special weapons or melta bombs if you like and go crazy with it. I will attach a librarian to it to get more profit out of the banner for a nice little synergy with Unleash Rage. This will be a huge bullet magnet, but I hope to keep it alive with Shield of Sanguinius...
While I'd love to have a bunch of Mini-Baals in a list (and the new mobility of our tanks will make up for the short range), I think I want to go with the TL-Lascannons. They're the same price and give me the ability to go anywhere on the board and be a threat to anything.
Ok, it's only 1 shot instead of 4, but I like it. I'll probably change my mind, of course.
I think I'll run 2 Predators and a Vindicator, that way I can crack transports and then nuke the contents. They get a cover save, but that's ok. Actually, I may well use the Vindicator as anti-armor more than anti-infantry.
Doc, I love Lascannons. I did a recent BOLS post talking about how they are back. But I have to choose a TL Las vs a TL AssCan, I will take the Asscan every time. First of all, with the 12" movement and 24" range, you are still going to be able to reach most of the table. It is no lascannon range, but pretty good! But the point still comes down to tank popping punch. As I have posted several times before, a TL AssCan is better at popping armor (except 12) then a TL Las. That discussion is a dead horse and the differences are almost nonexistent, but still.
The point is that you are trading your troop killing punch for some unnecessary range. A TL Lascannon is one dead Ork. A TL AssCan is four dead orks. Five TL las is 5 dead orks. Five TL AC is TWENTY! Now we are talking.
I got all of my assault cannons from the ravenwing battleforce. Each box comes with 6. No joke. I didn't even realize it until I was scrounging around for them. It was pretty sweet. Bought 3 ravenwing battleforces for my bike army... gave me exactly enough for my 9 TL assault cannons. lol
Although I forgot to mention, the assault cannons are slightly smaller than the crusader assault cannons. Just to forewarn you.
LOL, this was pretty much the list I've written, but you already knew I loved the AssCannon RzBacks
I'm jumping into this discussion late, but I love the list. Very similar to the mech list I will be running.
I think I do prefer the Las/TL plasma combo over the assault cannon. I know 5th is all about torrent of fire, but after playing with Tau, I can't leave the AP2 weapons at home.
Either weapon choice, I think the army has a very competitive edge. What are your thoughts on trimming down the assault squad upgrades to fit in more bodies and more Asscannons? Espeically with the asscannon loadout, you have a better chance vs horde armies, and shouldnt need to jump out of your ride to clean up stragglers.
Long ago I experimented with taking the power weapons out of my assault squads... epic fail. When I needed to get them into assault, they had no teeth, and I was loosing assault to necrons. Now I will always spend the points. Well, I cant say always, I will look at the list and see if I can get more bodies on the table.
I understand how you feel about the power weapons. A 5-man RAS isn;t much to write home about on the charge. The Sang Priest helps, but isn't the end all.
So looking at your list quickly, if you dropped the extras from the squds, excluding meltas, and dropped Corbulo to a regular Sang Priest, then you could add in another RAZ squad I'm pretty sure.
It's 5 more bodies on the table, and another fast assault cannon platform. We both know how strong those can be.
I'm not saying this is the right choice here, but I'd rather not be assaulting if I am running a mobile shooty force. I don't want to pay a premium for something I don't want to use. On the other hand, I've lost out on assaults because I couldn't ignore armor saves.
I'm anxious to see the progression of the list.
But I want corby! I just need to throw this list on the table and see how it plays. One change I am considering is dropping the other priest and going with the extra 50 points on the libby. Can the corbs bubble be enough for the whole army? We shall see.
I'd rather have the two priests. Makes it harder to rid the table of the FC and FNP.
I would advise against kitting the Librarian out. They are mostly support characters, and when you start to give them goodies, it makes you want to take advantage of those extra goodies. Then you start to make mistakes while trying to maximize what your "new hotness" character can do.
That is one fundamental we have differed on in list building, not to put myself on your level because I have played in exactly one tournament(although I did get second, lol). But I tend to pare things down and maximize the number of units on the board, rather than get upgrades and the like for fewer units.
But I agree, the list needs to hit the table, and the pros/cons worked out.
Get to it already! lol
ps get going on the all jumppack DS army. I have some ideas and want to bounce them off you.
Email me your ideas, i will post them up here, this is the best place for them! I tried the minimizing for max effect thing. I ended up with 5 rhinos with assault squads with no power weapons or extra armor. You can guess what happened... 5 rhinos that went no where when I needed them to because of being stunned, and assault squads who couldnt kill necrons in assault cause they had no PW.
But you are right on the libby. Librarians are foreign to me. Trying to use powers will be a fun tool. When thinking about the 50point libby bonus, i was thinking about the LD 10 hood vs the LD 9. Almost all psyckers have LD10. Aggressors win ties. Trying to block them with LD 9 is like giving them a 30% advantage.
I thought all the Librarians now have the Ld 10. Granted our old Libby's were Ld 9, but I thought the nex dex changed that.
If that is true, then the only plus to the Epistolary is the ability to use 2 powers a turn. I don't think it is worth the points. And welcome to the wonderful world of Librarians. I love to play with them on the board, and the psychic defense in invaluable I think.
I know how you feel though about min squads spammed over the board though. I struggle with it too. Who knows if I'll get it figured out ever.
Email on its way to you about the jumppack army.
OH yah, I see he does have LD 10.
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